Demystifying Mental Health

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to the but why Podcast, where we explore the human experience through a psychological lens by asking, but why? And today we are exploring mental health, a particularly relevant topic. Maybe this time of year we've got, you know, in the US we've got election results, we have, you know, the seasonal stuff that happens with, you know, time change and the winter. So there's a lot of people with either seasonal depression disorder or symptoms, and it can just be a kind of difficult time of year. And this topic was actually spurred on by Martha, who commented on YouTube, she said about last week's topic, it's a great topic dealing with a situation at work and unsure to go about it. That has to do with what we were talking about surrounding psychological safety at the end of the podcast last week. And she loves the philosophical bit about the paradox of intolerance. So. Which is funny to hear because I posted a video about not tolerating intolerant people on social media and for some reason on TikTok, that's what upset people. I got so many. [00:01:13] Speaker B: Like, in what way? [00:01:14] Speaker A: Well, it's like, well, who would do that? Like, that doesn't actually happen. Like, Trump's tolerant. He's just trying to protect people. Literally. Like, he's just trying to keep trans women out of. No, that's not how he phrased it. He's trying to keep men out of women's sports. Like, shit. Like that was in my comment section all weekend. And then I was just like, you know what, I can't argue with these people because they obviously don't understand what I'm talking about in terms of intolerance. And like, they're the intolerant ones that I'm not going to tolerate. So goodbye. One of those. [00:01:52] Speaker B: And how has that been for you? Because that sounds pretty rough kind of having all the comments that you've had, like, recently. [00:01:58] Speaker A: Yeah, so I'll go into that actually in a second because. Okay, yeah, because I just want to finish reading Martha's comments. So she said, also would love a well being, well being and mental health episode. And last night, I mean, for the last week or so, Laura and I have been thinking about doing the socioecological model so we can provide some context about how we go about analyzing the world. But then I messaged Laura last night after my last week or so of experience going, should we do maybe mental health? Maybe that would be kind of relevant right now. And she was like, yes. And then I saw Martha's comment and I was like, she says, oh, it would be good to Do a wellbeing mental health episode. And I was like, all right, well that makes our decision really easy because I think it's quite needed. So, yeah, so kind of going back to what you're saying, and that's one of the reasons I thought mental health might be nice to cover is because online right now is crazy. Like the trolls have come out. I have never experienced, like I'll get the odd weird comment every once in a while. That's just being on the Internet. But since the election and all these people have been emboldened to say what they have been always thinking, but now there will be safety mechanisms for them in place to do so. The most vitriolic stuff, I mean, you saw the video I posted last week where that incel guy won't even say his name online to give him credit. Said your body my choice and stuff like that. There are high school boys going around shouting this in the hallways. There are T shirts being sold online on Amazon with that phrasing. There have been black people in America getting texts saying, show up on the plantation, you know, at 9:00am Monday, we expect you to be there. Or else, you know, there's just, it's crazy what's going on. These people, you know, coming out of the woodwork because they feel they can now. And it's really scary to see and it's really frustrating, to put it mildly, to see this after literally years, months, years, saying this is exactly what would happen. So I don't care if somebody's, you know, I don't necessarily believe that everyone voted for Trump because they are misogynist or racist or transphobic, you know, things like that. But they still had to be okay with it. And I think that this misogyny, this, you know, homophobia, transphobia, racism comes out when people are struggling in their day to day lives, whether that's mental health economically and stuff like that. So yeah, I really struggled over the weekend when I, with my mental health. When I recognized that I was getting all these messages. I was like nauseous because it was the first time it was happening and I just like actually physically felt nauseous for the whole first day. I couldn't, couldn't eat. I wasn't like sad, I was just like, it just made me feel gross. Because they are actual sexual assault threats, honestly, like that. I'm getting tens and tens and tens of them in my inbox. It's crazy. [00:05:23] Speaker B: Wow. [00:05:23] Speaker A: Yeah, wow. So that's something. Oh, sorry. Go for it. [00:05:29] Speaker B: I almost feel like this question maybe doesn't matter. But I just keep thinking, like, why are these people doing this? Like, what is the aim? Like, are they doing it because they think it's funny or are they doing it because they're like deadly serious? Or they're trying to just, you know, like make people feel uncomfortable, make people feel unsafe so they stop speaking out. Do you know what I mean? [00:05:58] Speaker A: I think that's usually the point of this stuff. When you look at it from like a systemic framework is this misogyny, racism, et cetera is used to silence the person. So like, oh, you're being too loud with your feminism. You're doing it wrong is only a tactic to shut us up. And the threats and everything like that is a tactic to make us stop. And so this is coming from, you know, a systemic uncomfortability with people taking up space that they haven't historically had. And this has been predicted in, you know, many books and with many great, you know, philosophers and people who know what they're talking, excuse me, what they're talking about. You know, obviously, you know, the gendered side for me is where my expertise is, but. And I'm sure it's happened loads more with other kind of, you know, identity side of things. But if you look at women's history, you know, we talked about the witch trials, so backlash to women taking up some economic space and social space was the witch trials. Backlash to women playing sports and starting to communicate more and travel more on bike, bicycles and stuff like that. And protest was banning women's sports a backlash to women progressing because they were working during the war effort was the 50s housewife, where women were forced into these kind of these housewife roles. They were constantly medicated because it was so unnatural. So this is a cycle that happens, but social media makes it so much worse now, where these people now have a platform, everyone has a platform to say what they've been thinking all along and it's safe for them to do so. Because in the US there's no national, you know, there's no national thing that says this is a crime. Whereas in the UK it was great. I actually looked up on Amazon to see if the your body my choice thing was selling on the UK Amazon because it's all over the US one and there was a tiny notebook that said it. And it was my favorite. This is my favorite thing about British people. It was just one star reviews. There was like 100 one star reviews on it saying, this is illegal, this is hate speech, take this shit down. And it was. And the only the only 5 star review was some woman was like, this is really useful for my daughter going to school. Anyone who has this, she'll know to avoid them. So, so yeah, it's, it's going to be a crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy few years. It's scary. We're still in that diagnosis fail. Well, fail for sure. But diagnosis phase, I'm feeling some hope or I guess I have some silver lining because, you know, like I said, I don't think a lot of the voting was driven by hate. I think it was driven by hardship. But because we live in patriarchy and capitalism and racist systems, the symptoms are always going to be, you know, sexism, racism, things like that. So. But I think these Republican politicians think that the policies that are going to now oppress people are super popular. So now they're going to enact those. They're going to mess up everyone's lives and hopefully they won't get in next time. So obviously this will be terrible. It'll be extremely harmful and it's disgusting. People, people are going to be harmed and die. There have been women dying already. But if I have to pick, you know, from a pattern recognition and where to solve the problem point of view, I think this is where we can focus is look, they're not delivering what you wanted and this messes up your life too. And one thing I'm really struggling with is people saying there was too much focus on identity politics because there wasn't actually that much from the Dems. It was more the Republicans scaremongering about. [00:10:04] Speaker B: What do you mean by identity politics? [00:10:07] Speaker A: Oh God, I forget you guys don't have that phrase here because it's not real. So it's like you, have you heard the term woke? [00:10:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:17] Speaker A: So it's like, so what will happen is conservatives will say like you're playing identity politics so you're just pandering to like black people or women. You know, it's not real. It's like you're being too woke. We gotta fight this wokeness. And the only reason a lot of these people can vote is because of what they term as identity politics. It's not real, it's not a thing. It's just fighting for people's rights and it's really frustrating for me. Sorry, I know I'm going on a little bit about this, but I think I was so frustrated last time that at least now I can offer a bit of analysis now that I'm a bit removed for it from it. And it can help people's mental health if they're a bit concerned about what's going on and where to focus. My point of view is we're getting a lot of, I don't know, arguments in the States about was it too much focus on, like, protecting people's identities? That's really what people are saying. Like too much focus on protecting people's social issues versus the economy and that's it. That stresses me out because honestly, like, I will vote for people who protect people over anything else. Yeah. But it's really tough for me because people's inability goes back to what I was talking about, about lack of critical thinking skills from our education, people's lack of ability to see that two things can be true. More things than two can be true at once. Right. So the Democrats failed on economic populism, which is essentially, you know, doing what the average person wants and needs. The Biden administration didn't follow through on campaign promises and they weren't really explicit about what they did accomplish. And Kamala switched her campaign pretty quickly from this is what I can do for you from like a policy point of view to this is what you'll lose without me. So we do need that policy side to make people's lives better, because when their lives suck, they turn to the worst parts of the systems that they live in. And that's why we'll cover a socio ecological model at some point. But the identity focus policies are super important because a significant amount of this country, even those who voted for Trump, are going to suffer and are already suffering because of this election. Like, you should see the Google results right now. Like, can I take my vote back? What are tariffs? How can I do like xyz? Am I going to lose my health insurance? Like, do this, do this, do this stuff before you vote. Research this before you vote. You're just going off of propaganda. So, you know, these people are. Everyone you know is going to struggle. I mean, he's already said he's going to get rid of the Department of Education. [00:13:12] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. I was reading that yesterday off the back of one of your Instagram posts. And I was like, what is this? [00:13:20] Speaker A: Yes. [00:13:20] Speaker B: I was like going off on one to mutt about it. I think he was like. I think he was like, I can't handle this right now. [00:13:26] Speaker A: I know, but that's. [00:13:28] Speaker B: That is mad. [00:13:29] Speaker A: Yeah, it's. It's crazy. So the identity side is like, the Democrats need to not do empty promises, which is what the corporate ones tend to do. But also equally, we shouldn't be doing. Was it this or was it this? It's like, no, we just need to make everyone's lives better and this is going to be insane. It's. It's just going to be insane. But, yeah, yeah. Do you have any thoughts? [00:13:52] Speaker B: Yeah, I, I just think it's going to be kind of scary how it unravels, like if there's already a lot of, well, extremely concerning things we're already seeing with that Department of Education or even. I didn't realize people were wanting, like taking their, wanting to take their votes back and things. [00:14:12] Speaker A: Crazy. There's, there's, like, there's already like hundreds of stories about people who didn't understand what their vote meant, being upset about it, like not understanding what a tariff is and not understanding that they're going to lose their job because they work under, you know, business that is paid by the Department of Education, things like that. It's. People just didn't really think through things. So, yeah, it's all right, we'll keep fighting if, even if you voted for Trump, still going to be fighting for a better life for those, those people. There are some people where I'm like, I hope you get what you deserve, but there are, and, and, but that's probably me being a bit jaded after my experience of getting literal sexual assault threats all weekend. So. [00:15:05] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So I think there's like two sides. Almost like you're saying there's this one side where we might feel this kind of animosity or really like hatred towards some people who have voted in certain ways, but then others. I think there's almost a feeling of, I don't know, like, the fact that, like, they've probably been manipulated kind of by the campaign and used in order to kind of make that, that, that vote. I think that's, I don't know, sad in a way. [00:15:39] Speaker A: Yeah. That's kind of how I, I mean, it's. We're lucky to come to have our training and our points of view because we see the humanity in everyone. [00:15:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:15:48] Speaker A: And you know what? I'm real pissed off. Real pissed off. But at the same time, I can understand the why. The. But why behind why is this happening? Can understand the why behind it. And, you know, being quite problem oriented in my thinking, I can look at what's the problem and let's find solutions. And I think one really important thing to do is address people's mental health. I don't think this would be nearly as bad if people's mental health was thriving at the moment. So shall we Say theme song. [00:16:29] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. [00:16:30] Speaker A: Theme song. [00:16:30] Speaker B: Like, 17 minutes in. Sorry. [00:16:50] Speaker A: Last week, we forgot the theme song. We forgot to say theme song. And I was like, where the hell do I put the theme song? And so it was in a really random. Not. [00:16:58] Speaker B: No, I love the random theme song. [00:17:02] Speaker A: I know. [00:17:02] Speaker B: I love that. [00:17:03] Speaker A: It's just. We're too awkward to just fit it in somewhere. I don't know. [00:17:07] Speaker B: Yeah, we just get distracted on the topics. [00:17:09] Speaker A: We do, we do. We love a tangent. But because this is such a difficult time for a lot of people, you know, obviously, like we said, it'd be good to look at mental health. And mental health can sometimes seem, like, overly simple but also really daunting to explore. So I think thought it might be nice to kind of break it down into smaller blocks so people can target different areas they want to focus on that they are capable of focusing on. So I thought that, to start, I would explain the difference between mental health and mental illness, because a lot of people get those two terms conflated. And you and I are qualified to work with mental health, not necessarily with mental illness, when it comes to disorder. So you might think of mental health and mental illness as two points along a spectrum, kind of like physical health and physical illness. So, for example, you can have a very. You can have, you know, be really muscular and be doing lots of cardio, be doing like an ironman or something, but actually have a physical illness in the background. That makes life a bit more difficult. So it's kind of the same with mental health. And so here's a more straightforward breakdown of mental health. So mental health refers to a person's overall emotional, psychological, social, wellbeing. It kind of influences how we think, act, feel, how we navigate life. And just like physical health, it's something that we all have, and it can vary day to day, like you and I were talking about before the podcast. And good mental health helps people handle stress, relate to others, make decisions. And having good mental health doesn't necessarily mean feeling happy all the time. That's kind of impossible. And if you do feel really happy all the time, there's actually probably not a good sign. It means just being able to cope with normal life challenges in a more balanced way. So that's mental health, and then on the mental illness side, that's more specific, diagnosable conditions that impact how we think, feel, or behave, usually for an extended period of time. And so you might hear me say mental illness, disorder, or symptomology. So a disorder is diagnosable in the dsm. But people might also have symptoms of a mental illness before they actually get to the disorder. And so I call that mental illness symptomology or symptoms. So these conditions like depression, like anxiety, bipolar, things like that are pretty likely to disrupt how a person functions in daily life. So does that differentiation make sense? [00:19:52] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think it helps because I think sometimes, I don't know, sometimes I feel like these terms particularly, I suppose mental health kind of gets used so much that it can be a bit not, not confusing, but I think sometimes it can kind of lose its weight a little bit because it just gets thrown around so, so much. And I think particularly kind of using mental health just as like a broad term across everything, including like mental illness, rather than really kind of pinning down and understanding what, that, what mental illness is kind of in its own right. [00:20:27] Speaker A: Yeah, it bothers me when it's used as a buzzword. It seems quite irresponsible. So much so, yeah, you see that in, you know, when you go into organizations, they're like, we offer mental health support. And you're like, what does this mean? They're like, we have a nap room. What? [00:20:46] Speaker B: Like, thank you. [00:20:48] Speaker A: Okay, thanks, that's great. [00:20:50] Speaker B: I'll just go lie there all day then. [00:20:52] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And sorry, I just had a really random thought. I was like, that's a sign of depression. Yeah, exactly, exactly. [00:21:05] Speaker B: That's where I was going. [00:21:06] Speaker A: Yeah. I was like, should I tell her? And I think it's important to mention that you can still have compromised well being. So just because you don't have, I wouldn't say like, oh, I'm mentally ill. If I was having a down day, that might just mean like either for a short or a long amount of time, your well being is compromised. I mean, your mental health, sorry, is compromised. So you can have compromised mental health even though it's still on that more positive side of the spectrum and it's not mental illness. So that means. [00:21:44] Speaker B: And would you say, does that tend to be kind of like shorter lived almost? So mental illness is perhaps when it's more kind of prolonged? [00:21:55] Speaker A: I would say that for sure. I would say that consistently compromised mental health is really related to having a mental illness or a mental disorder. So that's why it's so important to build that and why I accidentally mentioned well being before, that is. So the building blocks of mental health are different forms of well being. And so these two terms, mental health and well being, often get confused as well. And so the terminology, I mean, for those of you who are not in the literature of psychology daily. It is a tiring place to be. If you look at mental health or wellbeing, I mean for most things, but just the terminology is just, just so frustrating to go through. So the building blocks of mental health are like I said, emotional, psychological and social wellbeing. So you could have compromised emotional or social wellbeing and that will decrease, compromise your mental health. So this is a good way of looking at these building blocks of well being that make up mental health. It's a bit more of a comprehensive understanding of how we gain mental health and it kind of underscores that importance of positive function in various life domains for achieving mental health. So I thought I would go through the three types of well being, explain them a little bit and then we could maybe talk about ways to foster this in your daily life. Because I think sometimes that can be done. A daunting prospect. Yeah. Okay. So the model. Yes, so the model. Yeah. Some people don't watch the videos, some people are just listening. Yeah. So my, there's lots of different theories and models and stuff for mental health, but my, mine is from Corey Keys who is a positive psychologist. So in this model, emotional well being consists of three primary elements that kind of reflect an individual's emotional state. And so this is positive affect or happiness. This is the experience of pleasant emotions and moods such as joy, happiness, contentment. There's also the absence, absence of negative affect. And this involves the relative, so not complete but relative absence of unpleasant emotions like sadness, anger, anxiety. So while occasional negative feelings are natural, them occurring frequently can really detract from your emotional well being. And then we have life satisfaction which pertains to an evaluation of your life as a whole. So a sense of fulfillment, contentment with life circumstances. And you know, when we're looking at this we can really see how these might impact people's. I mean if somebody is not happy with their life is, and their well being is suffering, they're going to, their brain's not going to be operating properly. And that's one of the reasons I say like I can see where mental health might have an impact on election stuff. So any thoughts on that before I go into how best to foster this? [00:25:15] Speaker B: Yeah, I think I was just thinking about the importance of that life satisfaction and how it really filters back down into the other two. So in terms of experiencing kind of positive effect or like you say absence of the negative. But I also think that it's so important that we aren't striving for like you said at the beginning just happiness. The goal should not necessarily be happiness all the time, and it shouldn't necessarily to be. To get rid of all those negative emotions. Maybe this is like my philosophy coming through a little bit, but it's. That's part of life. Right. And I think something I often talk about is how, I guess, like, to have a fulfilling life is to experience like a full range of human emotion. And I. I do think that that's important. I think often we can talk about feeling, you know, flat as well, which is. Yeah. Perhaps where we're not feeling necessarily negative or positive. It's just like a flatness. So. And maybe this is more my personal opinion, but sometimes I prefer to feel something than nothing, even if sometimes that might be more kind of negative emotions. [00:26:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:33] Speaker B: I don't know if that's controversial. [00:26:35] Speaker A: I don't think it's controversial. I think it's probably a very individuality experience. But I think there can be a tendency to be scared of that nothingness from people. Whereas it's interesting because. So I have alexithymia, which, for those who don't know, is very common in autistic people, which means that you're not necessarily aware of what your emotions are and you might become aware of a really big emotion or feeling like a week or two later. And that's the combination of the alexithymia and the delayed processing. But I go through most days quite flat because I don't have. I probably am feeling stuff in the background, but I just don't know. I don't know what it is. And so that. That can scare me sometimes because I'm like, am I enjoying life enough? [00:27:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:24] Speaker A: Have I processed this terrible thing that happens? And a lot of the thing, for some reason, the thing that really gets me going is the two things that kind of trigger the most emotion for me on the positive end is being in nature. That triggers so much happiness for me, whether it's skiing and mostly mountains, I guess, but like skiing, hiking, being in the sunshine, being in the water and on the other side, it's not going to be a surprise. Maybe it's rage and don't. Pure rage. Pure rage. So. And it's like, it's a really interesting experience. So it's easy for me to wrap my head around, like, well, of course you can't be happy or sad all the time because usually. But also this contributed to my. What was misdiagnosed as depression at the time because it was autistic burnout, because I'm Like, I felt nothingness. It wasn't just a flatness. It was just like nothing, like floating. And so it's interesting. So I would say everyone should just go on there. What's your base baseline? Everyone's experience is so different with their brains that maybe have a reflection on what's your baseline? What is it? What does this look like for you? But, yeah, sorry, what are you. I feel like I've just gone on a tangent. [00:28:43] Speaker B: No, no, no. I. You're just making me think a lot because I think I kind of go through the weeks as well, kind of feeling quite. I don't know. Yeah, flat slash. Not thinking about it. Like, kind of not thinking about how I'm feeling and actually just thinking, you know what I need to get all this stuff done. Like, here's the list of things I need to do. Here's like, my calendar with all my meetings in it. I'm just not even stopping to think. And always I remember, like, to. When I've been kind of going to, like, therapy, like counseling is that I often say to. To like, my therapist, like, I don't necessarily feel, like, happier, but I feel less flat. I feel like I'm feeling more things because I'm actually spending that time to reflect on what's kind of going on with them. And it's not like it's solving problems, but it's making me feel more human rather than just kind of like going through life without. I think I literally use the term floating around when I was like, talking to my therapist about this, because it does. It can feel like that I think we're not kind of putting that time in to stop. And I think. [00:29:56] Speaker A: Be mindful. [00:29:57] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, be mindful. [00:29:59] Speaker A: Be present. Yeah. I think it's really easy in this, in our context, in everyone's context, just do, do, do, do, do. And being mindful and present is really difficult, especially maybe, you know, if you've got a not great circumstance. But I think that's definitely something to improve our overall mood, is try and take in, like, I. I try on my, you know, walk with the dogs to just not listen to a podcast, to take in nature, to listen to the birds and things like that. And just that alone. Sometimes I can't honestly. Sometimes there are days where my anxiety is so bad that I have to have a podcast on the background because just the thought of trying to be mindful is scary. But that's, you know, that's not every day, so I don't have to worry. So it's, you know, you're looking at the average, the baseline. [00:30:51] Speaker B: Totally. And I think it's so important that on those days, perhaps where you are feeling like below average in terms of that baseline is, is to like kind of allow yourself to be there. And, and I suppose that's kind of a little bit in terms of what we'll talk about as we kind of go through these kind of building blocks. But I think like in acceptance sometimes that yeah, maybe we're not baseline or we're not kind of feeling our best, like that's okay. And that is part of the human experience. [00:31:21] Speaker A: The human experience is real complicated. So annoying. [00:31:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:27] Speaker A: That's why we do a podcast about it. Yes. Yeah, we'll never run out of topics, so I thought I'll just name a few ways that people can engage in fostering their emotional well being and kind of related to what we were talking about. So practicing self awareness and mindfulness. So how are you going to know how you're feeling if you're not especially self aware? I think the self aware is you have a place to start before you work on mindfulness because I think it's kind of like a stepping block. You can't really be mindful until you know where you're at. So that self awareness portion we kind of talk about a lot. But being aware of your brain, your environment, what, what makes things better, what makes things worse. Another one is developing healthy coping mechanisms. And a lot of us, you know, don't have those. So it's learning healthy ways to handle stress. Are you exercising? Are you relaxing? Are you spending time in nature? All of this helps you kind of manage really challenging emotions. Practicing self compassion. So self compassion, I mean, you and I run self compassion interventions with a lot of clients, especially women clients. And so that's essentially being gentle with yourself, especially during a setback or a difficult time. So like you were saying, embrace that imperfection and complication of life and recognize that these, you know, like you said, the full human experience, this challenge, whether it's a challenging emotion or situation, is just part of growing as a human. Gratitude. Gratitude practice is one of my favorite favorite things and is significantly related to improving well being. And essentially our brains are wired evolutionarily to look for negative because that's how we evolved. Because we can, if we can spot a threat, then we can avoid it. But we're not really in that world right now. So we're constantly inundated with things that could be perceived as a threat by our evolved brains and we're more likely to Pay attention. But when you're using gratitude practice, there's various different things, but one thing that makes a big difference is just write down three things a day that make you happy that you're not even happy that you're grateful for. And it can be small. Literally anything from like, oh, I had a donut for breakfast, that was great, to like, I'm so happy this family member visited me from America. You know what I mean? It could be anything. But this over time changes what your brain looks out for in your daily life. So that's, you know, try keeping a gratitude journal or mentally noting these positive experiences. And lastly, and then I'll let you take over, engage in meaningful activities, which I'll dig into more when we get to psychological wellbeing. But yeah, spend time doing stuff that you enjoy. You know, again, it can be small things. You know, go to your knitting club, you know, read, go hiking, things like that. Any creative or interesting endeavor for you. So yeah, I will let you take over if you want to feedback on any of that. [00:34:43] Speaker B: Oh my gosh, I don't even know where to feedback. There's so many things I could feed back on, I think. I suppose for me, I feel like one of the places I invested most of my time kind of early on in life maybe like 10 years ago, was in like mindfulness practice. Kind of accidentally, like I was kind of doing it for work. And I think this is again one of the reasons why we are kind of very privileged because we sort of naturally fall into a lot of this kind of well being stuff through like training to be psychologists. But I went to like a mindfulness based stress reduction course. And I was mostly there because I was helping a PhD student at the time out with her, well, with her Ph.D. which is around like mindfulness and like physical activity kind of uptake. So I was like, okay, I'll go on a course. So I understand what this stuff actually is. And it just like totally changed my life. And I was like, oh my gosh. So I think it was mostly like in terms of like, I think I'm naturally quite like an anxious person. But I think the, the mindfulness practice sort of allowed me to, I guess take a different perspective on that, be able to step back, be more present, not constantly get caught up in kind of spiraling thoughts and trying to fix all of my thoughts. So I suppose in mindfulness, rather than, you know, as getting caught up in thoughts or trying to like change a thought, we're really looking towards like noticing and accepting thoughts or Kind of sensations and emotions that we might notice coming up. So I think sometimes I can by like relinquishing that power, almost like relinquishing. Trying to have control over like negative thinking. Strangely, like opens us up to a bit more freedom and space, kind of we stop the struggle. So much so that for me has been something that's been really quite, quite radically like changed the way I viewed like my internal sort of talk. [00:36:52] Speaker A: And then so how. Because I haven't really offered a definition of mindfulness. How would you explain mindfulness to somebody who, you know, because it's such a buzzword as well, who doesn't necessarily know from a psych point of view and then maybe what's one easy practice they could integrate that would, you know, improve their mindfulness. Like an easy mindfulness exercise. [00:37:13] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay, let me think about definition. I probably missed it putting you on the spot. [00:37:19] Speaker A: It doesn't have to be like a theoretical definition, just kind of how you would summarize it. [00:37:24] Speaker B: So I think probably one of the key things is this idea of like being non judgmental. So about the things that are coming up. So I'm not having a thought that, I don't know, say a negative thought about myself maybe it's just like one day I just feel like I just hate myself. I'm not trying, I'm trying not to judge that thought as good or bad. I'm just noticing it as a thought. And this noticing piece is important as well. So we're. It's almost like this moment to moment awareness. So we're able to step back and sort of notice the thoughts as they arise rather than just kind of almost like being caught up in it. So I suppose one way of thinking about it is Mm. So this is a quite a nice video I often kind of share with clients. But it's a video of say a road full of traffic. So imagine the traffic is kind of your thoughts and feelings, like whirring past. So we can either stand in the traffic and kind of get caught up in it and probably be pretty stressed because we might like get run over. Right? So running around in the traffic, we are really kind of caught up with these thoughts and feelings. But if we are kind of being mindful about the thoughts and feelings, we're basically sitting at the side of the road and like just watching the traffic kind of go past. So it's not that the traffic has gone anywhere, the traffic is still there, but we're just able to take this different perspective. So I would say I love that that for me is kind of being mindful, I love. [00:38:56] Speaker A: So it's like, oh, that car is red, that car is, you know, yellow, that car is big. And just like noticing it and then. [00:39:03] Speaker B: Going okay, cool, totally. And that kind of links almost to one of the techniques you can use which is just something called noting where you literally just note what's coming up and it might be as simple as ah, like thinking or feeling or like a sound for example. So you're just very simply kind of noting what you're noticing coming up. [00:39:27] Speaker A: And that probably links to that self awareness piece too. Like that'll improve your self awareness loads. [00:39:34] Speaker B: Definitely. And I think like you said as well, sometimes this is, it's hard to do the noting if you're not quite aware yet of, of of what the thoughts might be. [00:39:45] Speaker A: And it can be hard to do the noting if you grab onto those emotions as well. So you know that's, that can also be something to look out for. Like if you're noticing these thoughts, emotions, whatever it is, and it's really digging up some maybe negative emotions in you, it might be time to go. Maybe I should get that looked at by somebody who could help me kind of process this. Because that processing is a massive point. [00:40:12] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. And I think something also really important to note, which is something we talk about quite a lot, is that like mindfulness and maybe like particularly I suppose like more meditation. So like formal sort of mindfulness practice where you're literally sitting down and kind of going through you know, like a meditation or something that is not good for everyone. For some people it can make them feel worse. So do be aware of that and kind of, if you notice that it's not for you, don't beat yourself up about it. It's not for me. Yeah. [00:40:44] Speaker A: Laura and I are the exact opposite with that. Mindfulness makes me more anxious. It, not mindfulness, I will say meditation. It makes me more anxious. Especially now I know it's my sensory sensitivities. I get too over aware of what's going on in my body. So yeah, it's just so personal. But I think it does work for probably the majority of people, helping them regulate and things like that. And I love having your expertise on that because you are the go to lady for it. [00:41:17] Speaker B: I do like it. My mindfulness practice at the moment is so rubbish though. Okay. I need to keep needing to get back into it. That's the reality of it. [00:41:26] Speaker A: Procrastinating mindfulness is like the number one thing my clients who practice mindfulness do yeah, basically. [00:41:33] Speaker B: But I think as well, it is like noticing how you can pick that up in just little moments throughout the day as well. Like you say, whether it's being in nature or whether it is more like sensory things. I like my kind of cuddly toys. [00:41:46] Speaker A: Yes, me too. I've got, like, my fidget things. If anyone has good fidget toy recommendations, send them my way because I need a new one because mine just exploded. But we're already like 43 minutes in, so I should probably move on to social wellbeing. [00:42:01] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, let's do it. [00:42:02] Speaker A: So social wellbeing is, as I talked about in our last episode, we are social animals. No matter your neurotype, no matter what, there's some kind of social support that you need. And social wellbeing is an essential building block of overall mental health and both kind of mental and physical wellbeing. So I've kind of skipped over the social aspects that also comprise emotional and psychological wellbeing, because I don't want to be repetitive on this, but social wellbeing, you can also improve your emotional and psychological wellbeing through engaging in kind of social wellbeing. So there's a few dimensions of social wellbeing that reflect the quality of a person's interactions and the kind of integration within their community and society, which is really important. So we have social integration, which is feeling connected and part of a community. So people with a really high social integration feel that they belong and they have shared values and interests with those around them. And then we have social acceptance, which is kind of the other side of that coin. So, okay, are you integrated in the community? And then are you accepted? Do you have a positive attitude towards others? Do you recognize that they have the complexities that you have? Do you accept them for who they are? Do you understand? Again, we come to that human diversity aspect and seeing that potential growth for others, we have social contribution. So this reflects that sense that you know your life and your actions more broadly contribute positively to society. Do you feel that you're making a meaningful impact or offering value to others? Now, this doesn't mean you have to be doing anything massive. It could just mean, like you. You bring your neighbor meals once a week, and you feel like you're helping them get through something tough. You know, something like that. We have social actualization, which involves believing in the potential for a society to improve and grow. It's this overall sense of optimism about the future of society and the. And the potential for positive development. This might be a difficult one for right now. I think a lot of these are difficult ones for right now, which I might touch on real quick, Laura, before you jump in. And then finally, social coherence, which kind of refers to how somebody feels. They understand the social world and its complexities. So this can be kind of low for autistic people. Sometimes you have a sense that society makes sense, that, you know, you can comprehend what's, what's going on, the structure and the environment, social coherence. I have a theory that that's why a lot of neurodivergent people go into fields like psychology and sociology and things like that is that need to understand. So a lot of these social aspects might be quite low for people. Right now. I'm getting a lot of feedback from people in the States saying, I don't know if I can trust my neighbor now. I don't know if they voted for somebody who doesn't value my existence as a human being. How do I make the world a better place? Can the world be made another place? So I think this social wellbeing, even though we might think, oh, our emotional and psychological wellbeing might be what's suffering, I think this might be a massively hidden factor for a lot of people right now. [00:45:20] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think potentially because when we think about this kind of more social side of kind of well being, I think we. Well, at least on my reflection, I would probably think about this as, you know, am I interacting with people? Am I getting some sort of human interaction that I kind of enjoy? Am I getting out of the house? But actually this takes it so much deeper, like, because it's around, you know, things like almost like having hope, like having hope for the future, hope for society, like positive development, being able to find meaning or like have impact. Like it isn't just, you know, I'm having a conversation with somebody and yes, that can, can be really helpful for sure. But I think it's interesting how this kind of just goes a layer deeper and is really talking about like meaning, trust and hope, things like that. [00:46:16] Speaker A: That trust aspect is such an essential part of the human experiences. If you think about our evolution and the small communities that we kind of evolved in, that trust to rely on your neighbor was so integral to our safety. So you can really see how this evolved. And it's also the other side of the coin, kind of what we touched on last week with psychological safety, why that distrust of somebody or of another group can be so harmful. So, you know, there's always that balance that we have to look at. Yeah. And I think that social well being can again, vary for everyone. So, for example, I'll give myself and my partner Jack. He has a much greater need for a varied social experience than I do. If, you know. So you're talking about that meaning and that value system and things like that. That underlays almost all of my social interactions that I can control. Obviously I can't control. Unfortunately, every social interaction that I. I can't just like walk away with somebody from somebody if they're not talking about something I want to. But you know that Jack gets a lot more meaning out of a conversation that maybe doesn't have, you know, an end goal. Or we're talking about philosophy or we're talking about our views on xyz, he'll still be able to get meaning from that. Whereas if I do that, it's just tiring and I'm like, I am not receiving any meaning or value from this. I'm not developing. You're not developing. I just feel like we're wasting each other's time, so. [00:47:53] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, totally. And I think as well, like, sometimes I often will speak with Matt about. So Matt, like Matt, my partner. And it's like when we're in a group and there are conversations happening, he'll be like you in like more just an observational way. We'll talk about how I just seem like I'm not interested at all. And like, I think it's. For me, it's. It's like. Well, I feel like I don't have anything to input here, so why would I be like, paying attention? And I think it comes off as like, really rude. I remember my mum saying I used to do this as well, like when I was. When I was younger. And that if someone would be telling me about themselves or something, I would just be like, completely uninterested. And I. [00:48:37] Speaker A: And I think we've ended up as psychologists. [00:48:41] Speaker B: I know. How has this happened? But it does make you reflect on, I don't know, something that kind of feels automatic to me in a social situation. Like, oh, this topic is important to me. So I kind of switch off. But I think that I've gotten a lot better probably through training as psychologists to actively listen and like, be curious. And I think that that does almost like, helps me to find an interest in actually just like humans. Right. Like, what are they? What are you kind of experiencing? But I think sometimes in kind of bigger social situations that can be. Can be tough. [00:49:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:49:21] Speaker B: And I think that's for me, like, why I reflect a lot on like, almost like who I'm hanging out with and how the kind of topics of conversations kind of are meaningful and whether that's meaningful in terms of like talking about something a bit deeper or if it's literally meaning for me in terms of like talking about TV shows that I really. [00:49:41] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. That's why it's so varied per person. And that's why that there needs to be that in. What's the word? Not integrity. That's definitely not it. That. Oh no, it's gone. There's always one word I can't remember I have to get wrong in an episode, apparently, like intent. Intent behind like fostering that community. And it's not just like delving into a group of people and I'll be fine. I mean, some people, I'm assuming, can do that, but really forming a community with intent can contribute. Yeah. [00:50:14] Speaker B: And that, I guess, such a good word. [00:50:16] Speaker A: Yeah, I love the word intent. As we know from last episode, I think practicing doing anything with intention is the most important thing we can do because it provides that meaning and that reasoning behind things that kind of brings us into how best to foster this. So building and maintaining relationships. So again, invest in building these meaningful, supportive relationships. Spending quality time, not just time, but quality time with family, friends, colleagues, you know, show empathy, be open to sharing your own experiences. And then we have try and participate in community activities which I have like love, hate relationship with this, like some people. [00:50:58] Speaker B: Yeah, I was gonna say that gives me anxiety, you know, saying, no, what's. [00:51:02] Speaker A: What's my community is my community. Just like my research group. Great, that's fine. But I don't want to like go into the town and be like, hey, everyone, I don't know anyone. Why am I here? Yeah, exactly. [00:51:16] Speaker B: That would make me feel worse. Yeah, right. [00:51:18] Speaker A: I'm like, okay, well, I'm gonna go sit in a dark room for a day. [00:51:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:51:22] Speaker A: Number three would be to practice and promote acceptance. So we're talking about emotionally that self acceptance, but also on that social side, develop not a non judgmental attitude towards others. And now I'm not talking about what I said last week about tolerating intolerance. I'm just talking about how we can accept the broad range of human emotions. So I'm still not going to tolerate somebody who will not tolerate somebody else's existence on a result of, you know, a characteristic of theirs. But I will say I understand your full human experience. I understand why things might be happening. You know, try and be as inclusive as possible. Where everyone feels valued. Try to foster a positive outlook on society. So engage in conversations or activities that emphasize positive change and collective growth. And I think this is one of the reasons, reasons I'm trying to take that problem focused coping, like, how do we solve this problem? I understand where these people are coming from. I'm still pissed off about it, but let's try and see where we can go from here. Stay informed, which is not what people are doing. Participate in discussions on societal progress, support causes that promote positive social change. And I think people just need to really enhance feelings of that social actualization and optimism about the community's future. And that's a really big struggle for people right now. And then kind of related again to that last kind of social coherence bit is try to enhance your understanding of social dynamics. So stay engaged with current events, learn about different cultures, gain insights through your social systems that impact your daily life, which is one of the reasons that we do want to do that model. And just overall understanding your broader environment helps you feel more secure and confident within your place in society. From my perspective, it can make it really feel more frustrating as well when people don't. But, you know, at least I understand. You know, where do you think is. [00:53:27] Speaker B: Like a good place to kind of start with understanding these things a bit more? Because I suppose it can be, I don't know, maybe feel like quite a lot to always have it to keep up to date with, just kind of upskill ourselves in and having what are potentially like very kind of high energy and quite like draining conversations, I suppose. But like, what would you suggest? Like what's maybe an easy step to start building some of this stuff? [00:53:54] Speaker A: I would just say engage in the meaningful relationships that you already have. Would be a great space, great spot to start because, you know, whether that's maybe a friend that, you know, values similar things to you, but you just haven't had time to reach out for a while because everyone's busy, um, engaging in some emotional focused coping. So just, you know, as a quote from our study said, screaming into the void with your friends, like things like that, just, just kind of engage with what you have right now because I think a lot of people are probably quite drained and adding more. There's a lot of social threat going on, so it might be difficult. So I just engage with the community that you do have and then we can cover, you can extend when you have the mental capacity, if that makes sense. [00:54:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:54:43] Speaker A: So I'll move on to the final one, which is psychological well being which can get conflated for some people with emotional well being. I mean, again, not everyone's involved in the million psychological theory terms that we have. So while emotional well being has to do with kind of your emotional experience, am I feeling positive or negative emotions? How consistent is this? Is it balanced? This has more to do with personal fulfillment and psychological resilience. So psychological well being has five different building blocks. So that's self acceptance. So having a positive attitude towards yourself and accept your strengths and your limitations. And I suppose that also involves being aware of those. So this is crucial for your psychological well being. It's can contribute to your self esteem, your self worth and just let you feel content about where you are. But alongside that, you know, being content with where you are isn't necessarily enough for humans because our brains are real fun and complicated. So you also need personal growth and purpose in life. So a continual development and feeling that you're growing as a person and having that sense of direction and purpose. This is essential to psychological well being. It involves, you know, setting goals, finding meaning in life. Now I'm not saying find the meaning of life, I'm saying find some meaning in life. And this can provide, you know, motivation and resilience and it can really help you feel fulfilled and overcome obstacles. And this, these next two relate really heavily to Laura's expertise of self determination theory, which we'll definitely cover. But environmental mastery and autonomy. So feeling capable about managing life's demands and shaping your environment to suit your needs. And then autonomy involves being self directed, independent in your own thought and action, able to make decisions that align with your values, that resist social pressures and can maintain that strong sense of personal integrity. So that's the psychological well being side. So it's really around like, am I psychologically resilient? Can I grow? Do I accept who I am and do I have control over my life? [00:57:05] Speaker B: And I think as she was talking I was the main thing my mind was saying to me was like, wow, this is tough. [00:57:11] Speaker A: I love how you're saying why. I love how you separated your brain from you. My mind is saying to me not. I was thinking, yeah, that's, that's what. [00:57:21] Speaker B: That'S what my training's done to me. My mind is a separate entity. But I think it is like, I think this stuff can be really, really tough. And I think like something for me, like I notice like some days I really just feel like there is no purpose. I think it can be really easy to kind of feel that way, like in this day and Age when we maybe do feel like we're just on like a conveyor belt of, like, you know, work and things like that. And like, what actually is that bigger purpose? Like, what are we working towards? Like, I personally, I wouldn't say that I have any goals at all. And I don't know if that's slightly concerning and if I should. [00:58:05] Speaker A: I think you do have goals that you just might not be aware of. [00:58:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:58:09] Speaker A: Like, and it's really easy to not have that purpose because we live in a capitalist society that demands that we do things that we're lucky to be doing something that we care about. But a lot of people, yeah, you know, they have to do stuff they don't care about to survive. But I think you definitely have goals. I mean, you. You're definitely alongside me with kind of like minimizing or getting rid of discrimination, you know? [00:58:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:58:37] Speaker A: Dismantling the page. Maybe if they are, maybe you need to just make them more explicit. [00:58:41] Speaker B: Maybe I do. Maybe that scares me a bit. You know, I think there's also part of if I make the goal, then I've got to do the goal, otherwise then I fail. And I think that's kind of an interesting narrative as well in that sometimes I'm like, you know what? I'm just gonna, like, live life, see what happens, sort of just take what comes in a sense. But I think also, again, this word intent. I think living without intent can be. Can be difficult. I think that is something I've been trying to do more often, is not necessarily setting myself goals, but like living more intention intentionally. [00:59:18] Speaker A: I mean, that's a goal. That's a goal. [00:59:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:59:22] Speaker A: Living life intentionally is a goal. And I think that we can. We can get stuck in this kind of like, you know, psych, and we need to. We, especially in sport or business world, need to provide like, you know, smart goals. Like. Like short, measured, achievable. Yeah, I know, right? No, I'm not gonna do it. I know goals can be more. More vague and long term. Like, if I say my goal is destroy the patriarchy, obviously I'm not going to be able to destroy the patriarchy, but I can. If I know that's my intent, I can do stuff accordingly. I don't have a specific goal in terms of by 2026, this is going to happen. No, I just know that my intent is this. And we don't know what the world's gonna throw at us. So I'm just gonna go along with what I can with knowing that this is my overall Goal. [01:00:18] Speaker B: They're almost like more open goals in a sense. Like, and I think that is something that for me is important is not having something that is so rigid or even like outcome focused. I think it's having something that is, yeah, more open, more almost like values based in a way to help direct towards this purpose rather than, you know, actually one day if I wake up and I'm feeling like crap and maybe I can't move towards this goal, then that's, that's okay. And actually I'm just living with intent on that day, whatever that looks like. It doesn't have to be like changing the world, but it might actually be just like looking after myself or being more accepting of myself that maybe today isn't going to be the day that I dismantle the patriarchy, but it's actually the day where I get through like all the Twilight films. And that's exactly a win. [01:01:14] Speaker A: That literally sums it up. You're so good at summing things up. It's amazing. Like it, that. Yeah, that is absolutely it. Because we're human beings. This is the whole human experience. And if you have. When we know the research on outcome versus process focused goals, we as human beings, obviously we sometimes need outcomes, but the process is what life is. And so if we're really focusing on that and our needs, we can improve our wellbeing, which will enhance our mental health. It'll make us more productive, it'll make us more likely to accomplish maybe an overall goal. But we don't need to be so outcome focused. And I think that's a big mistake people make when making their goals, when setting their goals. And you just described exactly what my week was last week. Like literally Wednesday. I just like I couldn't do anything. And I think maybe, probably a couple years ago I probably would have tried to force myself to do stuff. I would have made myself way more miserable. Probably wouldn't have turned out anything of quality. So I. What did I do? I watched like probably Harry Potter or something like that. I don't know, like a good old comfort nostalgia movie. Which actually now that I think about it, probably not the best one to do because of J.K. rowling's problematic stances. So I'm going to have to rethink that. Maybe I should have done Twilight. But like you said, it can be a complicated one of trying to figure out how to foster this. So I'll just touch on a few. So try, like we talked about that self compassion and embracing who you are. That includes your strengths. You know areas for improvement. So that includes regular reflection. So exercises like journaling and organized reflection can help with this a lot. Try and pursue personal growth. I don't necessarily know if this is the time in life for some people to do that. You know, finding purpose and pursuing growth is maybe an overall goal, but maybe not like a right now moment. If you can take the time to enhance kind of your autonomy and your environment. So whether that is taking really tiny steps to kind of gain control over your surroundings by, I don't know, setting a routine. Organize your space by, you know, like, I don't know, like a new figurine or like, like decoration for your house, stuff like that. And try, you know, in, in interactions to make choices based off of your own values and your priorities. So really give yourself a sense of like, I have autonomy over my life. Again, we talked about mindfulness. And then lastly, I'll just say, like, celebrate the small wins. That's what I was trying to do with my initial. Like, I see a silver lining. Actually, it's not a silver lining because it's going to be really problematic and terrible. But at least we have somewhere we can focus, you know, celebrate those tiny wins. Like on last Thursday, I was just happy that I was able to do the podcast because I was so upset the day before with the election and stuff like that. That was a small win. And the last thing I'll say is if any of these things are impacting you really negatively and you're going, okay, well, my well being is absolutely messed up right now. Absolutely messed up. Then it's really important to seek help when you need it. So if you're really facing challenges that impact, you know, your psychological well being, your emotional or social wellbeing, you should, you know, if you can reach out to a counselor, a therapist, you know, obviously reaching out socially to your group is really important. But there does come that point where maybe you need a bit more expertise and professional guidance that can really support, give that those tools for navigating situations. So I just wanted to throw that in there because I think that's also important to mention. So. [01:05:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:05:09] Speaker A: So what are your thoughts? I think I just threw a lot of information. [01:05:13] Speaker B: No, I think that is so important because I think so, you know, a lot of the things we've been talking about today, you know, you might even be thinking, I just physically can't do that. And I think that might be kind of quite a common thought amongst people is like, well, actually do I have capacity kind of physically and mentally to even Think about adding some of these things in. So I think even just starting with a conversation and kind of sharing those thoughts with somebody is useful. And yeah, trying to be aware if you really do need to get some kind of external help with that. And then also I think just on the last thing you said around celebrating progress and small wins, I think this is something that we forget to do so often because we live such fast paced lives. It's like, can we just press pause and think, even if it's just at the end of the week, like, what were maybe two or three of kind of my, like small wins like this week. And I think that can help us just to get a little bit of perspective. [01:06:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:06:18] Speaker B: And it doesn't have to be huge. We're not changing the world. But yeah, I think that definitely that's something that's helped me. [01:06:26] Speaker A: I think. Yeah, that totally ties into that gratitude practice that we were talking about. And two things that will happen help with is that emotional and that psychological well being could contribute to social well being as well. So that is definitely, if everything is feeling really tough and you're like, where do I start a gratitude journal? If you can, whether it's in your notes app, on your phone, or have a dedicated journal where, whether it's once a night or once a week, you know, you know one to three things that you're really grateful for. And obviously, like I said, it can change kind of not your brain chemistry, but like what your brain is looking out for. But also over time, you have this list of all these great things in your life and you can actually start to see. Actually, you know, I've had this range of a really great human experience. I, you know, got to do xyz, which was a major, major goal of mine. I got to visit this person, I got to have a coffee with a friend. I got to have some alone time to watch Twilight. You know what I mean? [01:07:33] Speaker B: Exactly. Priorities. [01:07:36] Speaker A: Priorities. Right. So I highly recommend that. And then maybe like looking at that list that we've kind of laid out for you guys and going, all right, what's realistic for me to approach right now? And it might not be right this second. It might take people a week or two to wrap your head around it. But yeah, I think that's. Do you. I think Laura's actually got a couple questions for you guys to reflect on as well. [01:08:01] Speaker B: Yeah. So I think we're kind of. Yeah, we're trying to kind of end, I suppose the podcast now with some things for you to get us to reflect on. So as you know, we've given you a lot of information here. [01:08:12] Speaker A: Probably sorry guys. [01:08:16] Speaker B: So I think it's. Yeah, have a reflection. So maybe these two things, one, I think consider how you are currently fostering kind of mental health in your life. So what are you already doing that works? Maybe you don't realize, maybe you haven't thought about it before, but there will be things that you're already doing which are helping your kind of mental health. So have a reflect on that. And then I suppose the second thing might be kind of what is even like one thing that you can do to kind of further support your well being or support these kind of building blocks. So whether that is on a social side or reaching out to a friend or maybe like starting a journal, literally just noting down some things you're grateful for and these might be things that we can talk about in more detail and maybe unpack kind of how me and Kristen use these like in our lives as well. So if there is anything that's come up and you're like, okay, I'm interested in this, but like, can you break that down for me? Like let us know if there's anything in particular that we can, yeah, discuss in more detail for you guys. [01:09:22] Speaker A: Yeah, we would love that. Because right now, you know, this is why Martha's comment was so helpful. We're just kind of blindly going, this topic could be interesting, but the whole point of this podcast is, you know, people to learn what they need to learn and want to learn and give people an insight into our side of things. So please do. And you know, as always, thank you all for listening. And again, as always, we probably have more questions than answers, but we did explore, did enjoy exploring mental health again. Did this leave you with questions? Please let us know. We'd love to know if you have any topics you'd like us to explore. Get in touch. Be sure to like follow, engage, however your platform allows. And please tell your friends about us. You can find us on various social media platforms. Please don't send me mean messages. The link is in the bio of our but why Instagram page and I'll stick it on the show notes as well. And remember, the first step to understanding is asking, but why? [01:10:25] Speaker B: Why? [01:10:26] Speaker A: But why?