Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:14] Speaker B: Welcome to but why? Real Talk on Messy Minds and Messier Systems, the podcast where two psychologists overanalyze everything so you don't have to. We're here to unpack the weird, the worrying and the wildly unjust. We with just enough existential dread to keep it interesting. I'm Dr. Kristen.
[00:00:30] Speaker A: And I'm Dr. Laura. Let's dive into the mess.
Okay, so before we. Before we address the elephant in the room, just to say why. Why we're here today, I suppose. So this is the last episode of our holiday series and of the whole year, which is also fun and exciting and sad and scary at the same time.
But so far in our kind of holiday series, we've looked at expectations and like the nostalgia and also like the stress and the reality of the holidays. And so in this episode, we're going to chat a bit about the recovery plan for this time of year and kind of what are some things that you guys can do or that we've been thinking about doing to try and make the holidays a bit more sustainable. So last time we kind of did a bit of an intake, if we're thinking about in psychology language.
So we talked about stress patterns, roles. You see Kristen there, like bearded up, just. Okay, I've nearly finished. But today, intervention. What are we going to do? How do we make it more sustainable? Okay, but before that, Kristen, you look amazing today.
[00:01:42] Speaker B: Oh, thanks. This is just my normal day to day.
[00:01:44] Speaker A: You've done a fantastic job at growing such a hefty beard at short notice.
[00:01:50] Speaker B: In the span of a week of Jack just walking outside and just looked in the window like, what the fuck?
So for listeners, people who are listening and not watching and have no fucking clue what's going on, just go and watch.
[00:02:01] Speaker A: This is hilarious.
[00:02:02] Speaker B: Or what the elephant in the room is, according to Laura. Laura, what are you observing right now?
[00:02:10] Speaker A: What am I observing? You look like, like one of Santa's businessman friends at the North Pole.
That's what you look like.
So what that means is, well, Kristen's in like a sparkly blue snowflakey shirt and tie and waistcoat with a blue Santa's hat and a beard.
So, yeah, one of Santa's businessmen or women or people.
[00:02:43] Speaker B: I'm a business elf.
[00:02:44] Speaker A: We'll go with that.
Business elf, business elf with headphones on top just to.
[00:02:52] Speaker B: Yeah, it's essentially really fun, but it's a sensory nightmare to have a beard and headphones on top of a hat and all this. I might. I'm just going to have to.
[00:03:05] Speaker A: Can you Even hear.
[00:03:07] Speaker B: Yeah, I can actually. I was like, I'm not gonna be able to hear anything, but I can actually hear quite well. So that's good. But very exciting. I'm. I'm gonna have to take off this beard because you. I don't know how you bearded people do it. It's horrible.
[00:03:21] Speaker A: What is.
[00:03:21] Speaker B: What on earth? Thank you for letting me.
[00:03:24] Speaker A: Laura. We'll allow it.
[00:03:25] Speaker B: Because if you were like, no, it's not allowed.
[00:03:28] Speaker A: Never. We shall not continue the episode.
[00:03:37] Speaker B: Also, if you guys remember. Oh, sorry.
[00:03:39] Speaker A: No, you go. I was gonna say, I made my Christmas efforts. Can you see my Christmas efforts?
[00:03:46] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
[00:03:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:03:47] Speaker B: I didn't even notice the lights on your chair. I love it.
[00:03:50] Speaker A: It's great. I. Look how it's such a mess. It's kind of. It's slightly.
Can you see it from behind? Oh, it's not slightly, like, oh, my gosh.
Slightly cake.
[00:04:00] Speaker B: It's not even just on your chair. It's everywhere.
[00:04:04] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:04:05] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:04:05] Speaker A: So when I was doing this. Do you know that scene in the Santa Claus where, like, they are. I guess. Spoilers. Spoilers. If you haven't seen it, they're trying to kind of break Scott Calvin or Santa Claus out of jail.
Like, they have the police officer in the chair, and they, like, wrap him. I think it. I think it's probably tinsel, but they wrap him up. And I felt like that was me with this chair with these lights. I was, like, wrapping it in, like, all the lights.
[00:04:31] Speaker B: You're the elves with attitude.
[00:04:33] Speaker A: I am an elf with attitude in that. In that moment. And then. I mean, it is a bit of a mess, but that's my Christmas effort also. I put on the most Christmassy top I could find.
Let me see. What is it?
[00:04:45] Speaker B: Oh, look. There you go.
[00:04:48] Speaker A: Okay, so it's Christmassy because it's red and green, right? And she's got, like. She's got horns like.
Like. Like a reindeer, but her eyes are red instead of her nose, so.
[00:05:04] Speaker B: So it's more like Krampus or Krampus, which is also very festive, very festive.
[00:05:13] Speaker A: So I'm feeling very festive today, you know?
[00:05:16] Speaker B: Are you starting to feel festive yet?
[00:05:20] Speaker A: I think I was, like, at the weekend, we went out with some friends and did karaoke, which I was in equal parts excited and apprehensive about.
Oh, I do not enjoy karaoke.
I get nervous about it, like, before doing it, but then when I'm doing it, I do enjoy it, you know.
[00:05:43] Speaker B: I like that for you. It's literally my Worst nightmare.
[00:05:47] Speaker A: So that made me feel Christmassy.
But yeah, now just trying to finish off work, I guess, is not as Christmassy. But soon I feel like this vibe shall be there.
[00:06:02] Speaker B: Yes, definitely.
[00:06:04] Speaker A: What about you?
[00:06:07] Speaker B: I feel so weird right now in this outfit.
[00:06:10] Speaker A: You can take that hat off as well if the hat makes you feel uncomfortable.
[00:06:14] Speaker B: But the hat is the main thing, you know.
[00:06:17] Speaker A: Well, you're only doing it to yourself.
[00:06:19] Speaker B: I might be. That's very true. Nobody asked me to do this.
I might. The waist coat might be coming off. Maybe the tie.
[00:06:29] Speaker A: We'll just see. Oh, we get on with this. Where will we end?
[00:06:33] Speaker B: Where will we end up?
Yeah, I'm getting there. I think after I finish today or tomorrow, maybe I'll be able to start to feel a little bit more Christmassy in terms of like, work calms down a little bit.
But yeah, again, same, like kind of over the weekend a little bit feeling more Christmassy. It's more just like the stress of getting organized for Christmas getting in the way. And then once I feel organized, I think I'll be able to be more festive.
[00:07:00] Speaker A: Totally. It's like before, like any holiday, like just trying to box everything off and like make everything clean and like, know where everything's at. Remember to reply to everybody or put like a holding email into everyone.
[00:07:17] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:07:17] Speaker A: Like, oh, well, best year in the new year.
[00:07:20] Speaker B: It's like I'm gonna have so much.
[00:07:22] Speaker A: To do in the new year.
[00:07:24] Speaker B: Oh, I know. That's what I'm trying to eliminate right now. I just said to Jack, I was like, I'm so tempted to just kind of like take a little bit of a shorter day today. But really what's going to happen is I'm probably going to end up working till 7 just to make life a little bit easier.
Like next week or when I come back in January.
[00:07:42] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, totally. Yes. Fun times.
We're feeling the stress and maybe this. Does this segue into our purpose of today?
[00:07:53] Speaker B: Our life purpose or the purpose of today? That, that.
[00:07:55] Speaker A: Yeah, great question.
Holiday purpose.
Yeah, our holiday purpose, I guess, because I think we are like you say, we're definitely feeling the stress of things. Like just around, I guess, the holiday season, but also like the work and like finishing work off that kind of comes along with it and things.
So I guess we're gonna, well, keep building on the stress side of things because what is an episode without sharing our stresses?
But talk a little bit about, like, how we can try and ensure the holidays are sustainable and maybe even slightly restful, who knows?
Because I think at least for me, like, I'm always like, oh, it's going to be a break and I'm going to be so relaxed, I'm going to have a great time. And then I'm like, oh my God, I'm so tired. Like, get me back to my routine, get me back to work, you know, like sometimes I feel like that. So. So, yeah, so we're going to chat a little bit about sustainability and how we can kind of how we can manage or be aware of the stuff that we like spoke about last time. So I guess for like us it's like the masking, it's sensory overload, it's maybe some of like gendered labour stuff. Guilt expectations, comparison for some people, like grief and loss. So all of those things we spoke about like last time.
So we wanted to talk about that because often, like, there's a lot of advice around the holidays which just kind of skips to like self care and what you can do to like help yourself rather than necessarily like acknowledging, I guess, the systems that we live in and society and all of that which puts on society.
Society.
Oh my goodness. Always makes me think of into the Wild. Have you seen into the Wild?
[00:09:51] Speaker B: I don't think so.
[00:09:52] Speaker A: Oh my gosh, he'd love it. He leaves society. I'll leave it at that. It's fantastic anyway.
[00:09:57] Speaker B: Amazing.
[00:09:58] Speaker A: Not really Christmas. There is snow in the film, but I would not say it's a Christmas film.
[00:10:03] Speaker B: It's not a Christmas film.
[00:10:05] Speaker A: It's quite depressing actually. So anyhow, so yeah, so this episode, we're not fixing Christmas. I don't think Christmas necessarily needs to be fixed, but we're just kind of trying to figure out how we can make the holidays or Christmas or kind of whatever you are celebrating or not celebrating kind of this time of year, more survivable and better for us, I guess.
So. Kristin.
What? Hello? What's like a sustainable holiday to you? Like, what does that mean if we're talking about sustainable holidays?
[00:10:42] Speaker B: That has changed for me so much because I never even used to think about sustainable sustainability and I don't know if it's because it was tied so much to my masking, but I never even thought about capacity and making it sustainable. I would only just get really, really stressed or like, or like just like do my best and then see what happens and might even like look at recovering in January rather than over the holidays.
But like now, and this might relate to you as your first year, trying to actually think about it and integrate it after Your autism diagnosis. For me it's boundaries and. And boundaries, obviously, like, really looking at days off. Do you know what I mean? And for me, that means.
[00:11:31] Speaker A: Is a day off. Oh yeah, go.
[00:11:33] Speaker B: Yeah, for me. For me that's like an active scheduling. So I do work with Jack now to figure out, okay, well, we want to see people leading up to the holidays, but we can't have every single day. And like, I hate that feeling of like drinking multiple days in a row as well. And you can't do it with work anyway. Right. But like, you always, like, there's always like, oh, we got to see somebody on this Monday or this Thursday. And like, socially sustainable and cognitively sustainable and all that. And then.
So my kind of workaround is, okay, I will do that to a certain extent, but. But then my break between Christmas Day, which is when I see all like, family and stuff like that. But to New Year's Day, I will not see a single soul. And so I allow myself that time aside from Jack, but I don't think he counts in this context because I'm stuck with him anyway. He's always going to be there, just.
[00:12:29] Speaker A: Accepted he's there, it's okay.
[00:12:32] Speaker B: He's just there. He's there, he knows.
And so like, and, and so we've kind of built that in over the years. Is like our sustainable way where he gets to, you know, go out and see loads of people and all that. And I'll come when and if I want to and can. And then for me, the rest is just looking like rotting on my couch reading or watching TV or playing video games for like six days.
[00:13:01] Speaker A: That sounds ideal.
I would love that for sure. And I think, well, we're going to talk a bit around a couple of things you mentioned, like the boundaries also, like this idea of like, energy, like mapping and like knowing your energy levels and how they like, fluctuate based on certain events or contexts or scenarios or whatever, which I think I'm so bad at. But I. Maybe you can. You can help me.
[00:13:30] Speaker B: But I think as well, I doubt it because we both have very poor interoception.
[00:13:36] Speaker A: Who'S going to help me energy.
But I think that it's. I think for me something that often, like, gets in the way of.
And I probably even haven't thought about it that much before. But I think something that gets in the way of the holidays being more sustainable is like, maybe this is the slightly. The audhd sort of conflict is like, I feel like I constantly need to be going and doing something but then that just completely tires and burns me out.
And I think for me there's actually a lot of in like a sustainable, like holidays around, like accepting that it's not going to be perfect. And I think this is for like any holiday I go on, whether it's like a summer holiday somewhere nice in the hot or somewhere abroad or whatever it might be.
I think that sometimes I will struggle to just accept that it's not going to be like that perfect break that you've kind of made it out to be in your mind.
There are going to be things that are uncomfortable and that aren't going to be great and so on.
And I think that's what can be hard is the build up to Christmas or the holidays, like we've spoken about. And then actually you get to it and it's like, oh, no, like, why can't I be who I wanted to be right now? So I think for me it's a lot around that. Accepting.
Yeah, accepting it for just what it is.
And also kind of being more aware, I think, of my capacity, which I don't think I totally get yet, but I think, I think that's.
[00:15:12] Speaker B: That's the most. Oh, sorry, I didn't want to interrupt you. That's, that's like, that's like the biggest thing that was the biggest change for me over the last couple years of like learning what my capacity actually is versus what I thought it was or wanted it to be. And a lot of that involved, like, teaching myself to be a little bit more intuitive.
[00:15:30] Speaker A: How did you do that?
[00:15:33] Speaker B: Laura, I've been trying to tell you to do this for like three years. Okay, can you tell me again, please?
[00:15:39] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:15:41] Speaker B: So this is a good time of year to try and do it if you can, because you're off of work.
So it's literally just, it's so simple and it's actually, it's very useful for everyone to try and get back in touch, whether it's with your identity, with your nervous system, with your capacity, things like that.
And it's literally just going. When you have less demands on you. So, for example, the first time I did this, I took two weeks off in August and didn't do and do anything because. No, wait, this is very. It was very difficult.
[00:16:15] Speaker A: I.
[00:16:15] Speaker B: It was very difficult because the first day I had off, guess what? I did stuff.
Yeah, I made a list of all the stuff I could now do because I had two weeks of not working. And I'm like, oh, I, you know, need to do this to the lawn. I need to organize this room. And I'm like, no, so. So the lawn is guiding principle. Yeah, it is.
Um, but the guiding principle of that break was to do what I wanted to if I felt like it, not what I don't have time to do at other times. So for example, I did another break like that this August and I was like, I will paint my office if I feel like it. I'm not going to do it as a demand, as a task. And on one day I was like, yeah, I just feel like doing it. But like, also if I felt like going in and reading for a few hours, I would just do that. And it was really weird to almost disincorporate that performance mindset of you always have to be doing something that the systems do put on us.
And that really helps me, like taking breaks like that. But that first one first made me realize how outcome oriented I am as a person or like have been socialized to be and how, how awkward it feels internally and the guilt that comes with not doing something you're supposed to in heavy quotes. Yeah.
So that's why the holidays can be a nice time to try and lean into that a little bit more if you have that break and you're not working.
[00:17:41] Speaker A: I also think it can be almost easier to do it when I'm not at home.
So like I'll be spending the holidays at my parents house at least for like a week. And I think that that kind of helps me in some, in some of the. Kind of getting away from the tasks and the list and the outcome and stuff. Because I'm like, if I'm at home, it's like, I know that. I don't know that this, this thing needs tidying up or like I need to do the laundry or like I could reorganize a drawer.
[00:18:10] Speaker B: Oh my God.
So I think that's part of the intervention though. That's part of it is organizing drawers is. Is ignoring that.
[00:18:20] Speaker A: Oh, I.
So yeah, I think it's like you said though. I think it's.
It's ignoring it being sometimes, but recognizing when actually like you say, you're like, yeah, I want to organize that drawer because I think sometimes that makes a bath. This is what I find difficult. Right.
Is that am I doing a thing because I want to or am I doing a thing because it's going to make me feel better? Right. So am I organizing that draw because I want to organize the drawer or am I doing it because that drawer is making me feel anxious and I'M organizing it as a no means of making myself feel better.
And is one.
Is. Is that right or wrong? Do you know what I mean?
[00:19:07] Speaker B: Yeah. I feel like it depends on your aim. Just like kind of any intervention or designing. If the, if the intention is okay, let's get more intuitive and try to work on that specifically, then it's go with what you have desire and capacity to do. Because, you know, sometimes you just get in a mood to organize stuff and you're like, I just feel, like. Feel like cleaning my room and pull.
[00:19:30] Speaker A: Everything out of the cupboards, throw everything on the floor, make a complete mess and then cry about it for a while.
[00:19:38] Speaker B: And then sometimes. But like, sometimes you're like, yeah, I. I just want. That's what I want to do right now. Whereas then other times it's like just this drawer is really bugging me and it annoys me every time I open it. So maybe I'll feel a bit better if I clean it. But there are so many elements of life that aren't perfect, perfectly organized, that if you apply that to everything in your house, everything at work, everything you know, that you have to do with, then you're going to be exhausted.
So if you're looking, if you're looking at recognize intuitive, like being more intuitive and recognizing capacity, then I would say the, the latter one you mentioned. So like, oh, it'll make me feel better in the end, so I should do it. Maybe isn't the right way to go?
[00:20:17] Speaker A: No, I don't think so necessarily.
Yeah, it's hard because I think sometimes that's okay, sometimes it isn't. I think for me, like, something I want to try and do and I don't know if this is a boundary thing. I don't think it is a boundary thing, but I think it's more like around the idea of intuition. And listening to my body is just having more quiet time where I'm not in front of a screen, not playing, playing a video game or watching TV or on my phone. Like, I'm literally just sat, like lying down, like scanning my body, seeing what's going on, like maybe listening to some music or something.
So almost having that time to properly check in. And it might literally be like a minute or two minutes then that might kind of build over time. But I've been trying to do that a little bit more recently and I think it does help me to then decide what I need next. Do you know what I mean? I think sometimes for me, like, especially around the holidays where there's like so much going on. It's like you don't even have time to, like, stop and think, what do I actually need right now? Like, am I just going along with all this? Because it's what everybody else is doing, and I always really struggle to, like, put in pauses and breaks. But I think that, for me, is something I'm going to try and, like, purposefully do a bit more.
[00:21:46] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a good idea. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think. I think, like, if you're still feeling not intuitive with that kind of stuff, then that's the other thing I was going to say is actively putting in those boundaries and those breaks beforehand is super helpful.
[00:22:01] Speaker A: Totally, totally. And I think we spoke about this a bit, like, in the last episode. So this idea of, like, building the boundaries or clarifying our boundaries, like, before the day or the however many days you consider, I guess, like, the holidays, like, can we give ourselves, like, permission ahead of time and have things set that we know we're gonna do even if we feel fine? I think that's. Sometimes I think that's one of my challenges, is, like, I'll wait until it goes so far that I feel rubbish that going and pausing and lying down in a dark room, you're gonna take so much longer to bring me back around.
So I think it is. It's like being purposeful, not waiting for the fire.
[00:22:56] Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah. And it's almost like having that plan like we were talking about last time, and it almost, like, gives you permission to do the things to keep you on track, to enjoy. Because, like you said, those little breaks are what will make it more enjoyable. Because the whole point, hopefully, the holidays, is to try and enjoy yourself at least a little bit in some capacity.
So, like, giving yourself the permission through creating, like, some kind of action plan or boundaries or, like, even, like, emergency plan if you're not feeling great. Just it. It makes everything else more doable.
[00:23:34] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. And I think also, like, vocalizing that to other people, like, oh, by the way, I'm gonna do this thing, or, oh, actually, when we're socializing, I might take myself off for a few minutes or for five minutes here and there, just so you know, and, like, be clear about it. So that when we do do it, it doesn't feel like it's a weird, strange thing that's happening. Like, oh, yeah. Like, I always think o. To think that I don't like them or I don't want to, like, be with them. And I'm like, just give me, like, five minutes, you know, So I think as well, like, if you feel comfortable too, like talking to people around you about what your boundaries are, maybe that feels woke, maybe that is woke. But you know, woke is good.
[00:24:25] Speaker B: Woke is just.
Woke is literally just means being awake to the systems that impact us negatively.
[00:24:33] Speaker A: Awake to the. Let's all be awake to the systems this Christmas.
Yeah.
[00:24:38] Speaker B: And I think also we know the research says no one's thinking about you as much as you're thinking about you. So if you take five minutes away, no one's even gonna probably notice.
And no one's. This is, the research affirms this will notice.
[00:24:56] Speaker A: Maybe it's more like my, my parents, like, I feel like my parents might be like, are you okay? Like, is everything all right? Like, it's like a nice way, but like also like, yes, thank you.
[00:25:07] Speaker B: Just being alone, you're like, stop perceiving me. I'm not even there and you're perceiving me.
[00:25:12] Speaker A: Yeah.
But yeah, you're totally right. I think in most scenarios that's kind of not the case.
[00:25:23] Speaker B: So.
[00:25:23] Speaker A: I think it is. Yeah. Like thinking about what permission do we want to give ourselves ahead of time?
Like, is there something, Kristen, that, like a permission you want to give yourself this year that you haven't in previous years?
[00:25:37] Speaker B: I don't know. I think if I give myself any more boundaries, I'm just gonna not do anything like the last two years.
[00:25:46] Speaker A: What's your most important?
I guess boundary then just around the holidays.
[00:25:52] Speaker B: Truly, truly taking that break. Like whether it's work or socializing or responsibility, truly taking that kind of week long break of like Christmas and New Year to have zero responsibilities other than the things I literally need to do to keep myself and the animals alive.
[00:26:13] Speaker A: Oh.
[00:26:14] Speaker B: And yes, it's like, it's like, it's just to reset and be human because it's not really human to kind of live in the societies that we do despite humans evolving them and, you know, creating them. And so a huge boundary for me is, is literally just protecting that time. It's, it's protecting time for me more than anything like that because it's because, like, it's because I want to be able to enjoy the holidays. So. But if I, if I don't know that I have protected time after to recover from that, then I will really struggle. So, for example, it's always going to be really busy in the couple weeks leading up to Christmas. You're going to be seeing loads of people, you're going to be getting loads of stuff, you're finalizing work you know, you're just. There's a lot, and it allows me to enjoy, say, like, Monday night I went to United and was able to enjoy it, because I know in a week and a half, you know, even though I've got, like, two, three, more like social events, but even before Christmas, I'll have some time to decompress, whereas I've had years before where I had that busy time, and then actually either had people come to stay for New Year's instead of. So they were coming on, like, the 29th or, like, last year, we left for a wedding and for Colorado on, like, the 28th or 29th of December. And so there wasn't really any time to recover. And it sucks because I really enjoyed going to the wedding in Colorado, but I never got that time to recover from the initial difficult bit. So for me, the biggest boundary is time protection.
[00:27:50] Speaker A: Yes, totally. And I think that that links into kind of this idea of designing holidays around, like, our energy rather than expectations.
And I think this is so hard because it's like you said, a lot of these, like, say, the. The social events or the cool things that, like, you'll be doing this time of year. It's not that, like, I don't want to do them. Like, I want to do it. I just know that it's gonna spend a lot in terms of energy, like, pre and post thing.
And I think that I still don't quite understand, like, the.
I don't know, almost, like, the process.
Yeah. The balance, like, how the energy gets spent. Like, when I feel.
Like when I feel the difference from the energy being spent and for how long for.
So, like. So the social thing we did on.
Well, at the weekend, that I still feel like today I'm still paying for that. Like, I can still feel. I'm a bit, like.
I feel a little bit more down, like, struggling to motivate myself to do things more. And I'm like. I swear, like, previously, I would just be, like, social event, give me a day, and I'll be fine. Whereas now I feel like it takes me way longer to just get back to a baseline level in terms of cognitively and emotionally.
[00:29:22] Speaker B: I think that's something that is supernatural that happens as we're getting older and accumulate more responsibilities. Because, you know, when we were super young, in our, like, 20s, the holidays was just about, let's go out with our friends, let's go. Like, we're gonna see our family, we're gonna do presents. We're probably in just, like, way less stressful jobs. With what? Much less responsibilities. Yeah. You and I don't have. Didn't have, like, 10 billion projects that we were doing outside of our work, like a book and a podcast.
[00:29:58] Speaker A: It.
[00:30:00] Speaker B: And I think, like, it's. It's compounds it. So whether you're neurodivergent or not. But this is one of the reasons that undiagnosed neurodivergent women have a burnout in their mid-30s, and a lot of them a little bit sooner if they're having kids, is because the, like. I don't really like the spoon theory of autism, but just for lack of a better way of explaining it, of.
[00:30:24] Speaker A: Like, I feel the spoon's quite relatable.
[00:30:28] Speaker B: I like it. It's just not nuanced enough for me. So.
But I think. Because I think different spoons carry different weight. Do you know what I mean?
So. But if we're looking at, like, okay, you have.
[00:30:41] Speaker A: Not every spoon is made equal.
[00:30:43] Speaker B: No. And that is true in real life as well, because some spoons are horrible.
Jack went to go get me my ice cream last night, and he was like, so which spoon is it for ice cream? Cream. It's different than soup. Right. I'm like, of course, of course.
[00:30:56] Speaker A: Obviously.
[00:30:57] Speaker B: Oh, my God, Obviously. What a crazy question. But also. Thank you.
[00:31:02] Speaker A: Yeah, true, true. It's very considerate of Jack.
[00:31:05] Speaker B: Yeah.
So the idea of spoon theory, if you guys don't know, is like, say we're all given 10 spoons of capacity for the day, but. Or the month, and some days you might need to use 15 or 20 spoons. And so that depletes you for the next several days of your spoons and things like that.
So now there's more stuff to take away our spoons, essentially, because we have more stressors.
[00:31:28] Speaker A: Oh, that makes so much sense. But I'd never thought about it like that.
Yeah.
[00:31:34] Speaker B: Yeah. So instead of, like in your 20s, when, like, the things to take away your spoons were probably some socializing, maybe some work, but like, now it's. It's, you know, a million projects work. Like, more responsibilities. Also more responsibilities during the holidays themselves.
It just. Just life in general. You know what I mean? Everything's more expensive. The world's a show a little bit. There's just more. The older. Just a little bit, you know, the. The.
The older you get for a certain amount of time, the more there is to take spoons off you, and the harder it is to recover those spoons. And so I think that's why, you know, especially having kids, you know what I mean, because you can't prioritize your spoons as much. You have to prioritize the kids to like look after them and stuff like that.
So they are their own spoons. No, that's not what I meant. They have their own spoons.
[00:32:33] Speaker A: They are also a spoon. Anyway, wait.
[00:32:38] Speaker B: I feel like this episode is going to be so random in the end.
But yeah, I think, I think that's why. So I feel like Christmas tends to lose a little magic for people as they get older. But also this is one of the reasons why, is because we have less capacity. We have less like spoons, essentially.
[00:33:00] Speaker A: Spoons.
Yes, totally. And I think as well, like, I think that's helpful because I think, I often think.
I don't know, I think when I categorize things I'm doing in life, it's kind of like social stuff, family stuff, work stuff. But actually if you dive into those things separately, there's so much more going on than that. Like, if we dove into work stuff, like you say, there's a million different things that we're doing which are taking up a hell of a lot of spoons. Whereas if I think about maybe what work looked like, I don't know, five years ago, there was so much less in terms of, say, projects or just people I worked with or just different roles and responsibilities, for sure. So I can see how, especially with work, how that now takes loads of spoons. Even though I love it and enjoy it, it takes a lot.
[00:34:03] Speaker B: Well, that's a key component is just because you love the thing doesn't mean it's not going to take your spoons.
So, for example, I hang out with friends.
Like, I really enjoyed going to United on Monday night and I had a really good time and had fun.
[00:34:21] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:34:22] Speaker B: Yeah. And then. But then you just feel off after it and it's. It's hard to explain to people. It's not because I didn't enjoy myself or I didn't like going, it's just because it took that from. Took spoons from me. I didn't gave energy. It's my spoons.
[00:34:36] Speaker A: Give me my spoons back.
Yeah, yeah, interesting. So, Anna, but I think that I.
I think that I'm not very good at the pre planning, if you like, of my energy and spoons, which I think is something that it sounds like you have gotten quite good at doing is like looking ahead and thinking, okay, like, where do I need gaps or where do I need space?
And I think sometimes that's something I still struggle with.
And it Is like, oh, I can do that thing. That's totally fine. And I can do the thing.
But I struggle to accept that afterwards. I'm not just gonna, like, come straight back and be full energy and fabulous all the time. Do you know what I mean?
[00:35:25] Speaker B: Firstly, how many times have I said to you, laura, just because you can doesn't mean you should.
[00:35:32] Speaker A: I don't think I've ever heard you say that.
I didn't process that information, so.
Didn't exist.
[00:35:41] Speaker B: Selective processing.
[00:35:42] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:35:44] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:35:45] Speaker A: But I think that's, like, a big thing for me. I think over the holidays is being okay saying no to certain things and trying to predict a little bit, you know, like, trying to think ahead rather than just being. Cause I do like to be in the moment and just be like, yeah, let's do that, or let's do this.
But I think sometimes that's like, the death of me. Do you know what I mean?
Oh, yeah, sure. I can do that thing. I can go to that place. And it's like, oh, no. Why did I say I would?
[00:36:17] Speaker B: Why did I agree to that?
[00:36:20] Speaker A: But I think of this a lot as, well, like, around, like, New Year's, because I. I'm not really, like, a New Year kind of person. Like, I enjoy it, like, when I. When we do some social things, but I'm never particularly looking forward to it, and it always feels like a lot of effort.
I'm almost in my head. I'm like, can I just not do New Year this year?
But again, it's like, what's socially acceptable versus what you actually want to do.
[00:36:57] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, It's. I mean, a lot of what we're given in terms of what we're meant to be doing. The hall over the holidays is a social expectation that we often just don't question because that. Because we don't with most social expectations. Unless you come into, like, our crazy world, which now that's all we do is like, oh, there's a social expectation. Let's.
[00:37:17] Speaker A: Let's.
[00:37:18] Speaker B: Let's examine that, you know? Yeah, yeah, I get that about New Year's, though. I used to, like, try and big it up as some fun, like, night out with friends or I used to, try and, like, host. I do really enjoy hosting. I have, like, house parties. Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent. But then I like.
Because I take everything so seriously. Like, if I'm gonna host a New Year's party, I'm gonna host the best New Year's party ever. It's gonna be. Everyone's gonna. It's Gonna be like a murder mystery, and everyone's gonna have to dress up, and I'm gonna have to have this whole thing planned out. Yeah, I. I have a problem with over commitment, as you can tell with by my outfit.
This is the outfit I wore for this year's Christmas elf delivery. The Christmas stocking video, as per last episode that we talked about.
The only thing I haven't used is this. Oh, fake pipe. Yes.
So, yeah, so I've just. One of my boundaries is now is like, okay, I can either host Christmas or I can host New Year's. That's. Yeah, I can do one of those. I actually can't even do both. I have to do one.
[00:38:32] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. Are you hosting Christmas this year?
Yeah. Okay.
[00:38:38] Speaker B: And another one of my boundaries is I like everything done my way, so I'm not having people bring anything. Does that surprise you?
I will be doing all the cooking. I will have sous chefs helping with certain things, but it needs to be done just right.
[00:38:56] Speaker A: It's very exciting.
I'm excited for you, but also slightly stressed for you as well.
[00:39:01] Speaker B: I'm stressed for me too. I'm trying to enjoy it as much as possible.
[00:39:06] Speaker A: I'm glad you have some sous chefs. Sous chefs are. They're like additional spoons, do you think? Or do they take your spoons? Or do they take the spoons away if they do something wrong?
[00:39:14] Speaker B: It depends.
I can give you a really good example.
Christmas, because. Trying to keep us focused on Christmas.
A Christmas based example. So a couple years ago, having family over to, like, my family, and obviously my family is where I get a lot of my recipes from. Excuse me. And so I could say, hey, can you chop these potatoes? Or blah, blah, blah. And I know they're going to do it the right way. And I don't have to explain it more than that. It depends on how much cognitive labor you have to put into it. So if some person who I have no idea how much like experience they have cooking, or maybe I don't trust their cooking skills, or maybe I think they're kind of an idiot.
[00:39:56] Speaker A: Into circles.
[00:39:57] Speaker B: Or batons or the long way. Yeah, batons.
[00:40:03] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, Baton.
Batons.
[00:40:10] Speaker B: Yeah. So I think it.
[00:40:11] Speaker A: It's.
[00:40:11] Speaker B: If it adds or takes away a spoon is also a nuanced thing because it involves the cognitive labor.
[00:40:19] Speaker A: Is the mash mashed properly?
[00:40:21] Speaker B: Ooh. No one, no one's mashing the mash besides me, because I have a very. I do like. I like a. A creamy mashed potato. My mashed potatoes. This is a point of pride for me. Made Jack's grandpa, who's from Yorkshire, cry one year because they made him think of his home.
[00:40:38] Speaker A: Oh, my God.
[00:40:40] Speaker B: It was like a really mashed potatoes. Oh, they're so good. Maybe if you come.
Oh, my God.
[00:40:46] Speaker A: If I come in the new year.
[00:40:48] Speaker B: Yeah, I'll make potatoes.
[00:40:49] Speaker A: Mashed potatoes. Oh, my God, yes.
[00:40:51] Speaker B: And gravy and all. That's great stuff.
[00:40:54] Speaker A: That's it? That's all you need?
[00:40:57] Speaker B: I would literally be so happy just to eat mashed potatoes forever.
[00:41:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:41:02] Speaker B: Well, I need more cheese than that.
[00:41:04] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, no. You know what? I am not a cheesy mash kind of. Kind of fan.
[00:41:09] Speaker B: Oh, no, I don't mind. I just was saying I can't only have mashed potatoes. I would also have to, at some point in my life, have cheese.
[00:41:15] Speaker A: Oh, I see. Not all together. That's okay. That's fine. Some people do enjoy a cheesy, cheesy mash.
[00:41:22] Speaker B: I can see why there would be value, but not for Christmas ones.
[00:41:26] Speaker A: Yes, I would agree. I'd agree. So one of the things we wanted to pick up on from last time was we kind of spoke around, like, this dress and gendered expectations around the holidays. And I thought it might be kind of useful to talk about, I guess, for people who are listening, who might be within households or kind of with friends and. Or family, whether they see these gender differences and gender expectations.
How do we, I guess, one, notice and two, like, do something about it to try and create change?
[00:42:09] Speaker B: I think that's so hard because you don't want to, like, ruin the vibe over the holidays, Right? Sure.
Well, I'm speaking more generally.
Not necessarily. I don't. I really don't mind ruining the vibe.
I love walking into a room and being like, hey, guys, what are you all doing in here?
Or, like, just doing something awkward to disturb the kind of status quo which I knew. Noah's, like, now Noah's super autistic as well. Just, like, first, before I even knew that this is what I was doing, it was like. Yeah, it was just, like, awkward timing and just, like, not understanding the social dynamic that was at play.
But I find it really hard because, like, firstly, we've all been socialized to do these things, and most people won't notice them. And so the. When. If you're the person pointing it out on Christmas, you become the.
And that adds emotional labor to you and also can create tension that wasn't there. And it can.
I don't know. Everyone could be mad at you. Do you Know what I mean? Like, even the women could be like, we just enjoy doing this on our own. We don't want that in here.
[00:43:21] Speaker A: So true. And I think, as well, it can almost be.
It's, like, in a sense, like, wrapped in tradition. Do you know what I mean?
So it's like, no, this isn't something bad, and, like, gendered or whatever, this is just what we do. Like, this is, like, a traditional holiday thing that happens. Like, we've done it the same every year.
So you're totally right. Like, literally everybody could get, like, pissed off. If you're trying to shake that up and bring up a lot of that cognitive dissonance, I guess.
[00:43:54] Speaker B: Well, that's what it will do is. Is like, do you want your Christmas Day to be filled with people's defensiveness?
Check out our defensiveness episode if you want more information on this. Because, like, it will. Because. Because it's such an ingrained aspect of our society, it will bring up a ton of cognitive dissonance and defensiveness likely. And. But that doesn't mean it has to stay that way. So I feel like it depends on your environments. So if you're somewhere that's quite, like, psychologically psychosocially safe, saying, like, isn't it weird that they're all in there, like, cooking and chatting and dancing, and you guys are all in here just, like, silent and not talking to each other? Like, that's kind of weird, isn't it? I know. I know. Mom likes football. Why isn't she in here watching the football with you guys? You know, stuff like that. Just pointing that out.
Um, like, yeah, on Monday when I was at United, somebody was pointing out, like, it's, like, hard to know if people are joking, but, like, the mom does all the cooking because she's like, me. She likes it the way she likes it. She was explaining that. But then all the guys go to the pub together, and that's their little tradition. And you know what? That's fine to a certain extent because that's what she likes to do. But then somebody was like, oh, is. You know, I'm not gonna say the name. Is she invited? Or like, oh, does she not come to the pub? And he goes, oh, well, no, she's not invited. She's a woman. You should have seen every. Like, so many people in the room looked at me. I'm like, I'm not. I'm not gonna say anything in this moment because everyone's having a good time. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? And. And, like, it can be really. They're boomers as well, so it can be kind of like, I'm not going to change any minds, but at least everyone else in the room knew that was wrong. Do you know what I mean? And I'm not trying to shit on anyone's Christmas tradition.
[00:45:36] Speaker A: Yeah, it's funny if, like, say Matt's, like, going out with the guys and they're kind of like, oh, can I come as well? It's always this interesting sort of like, oh, yeah, like, of course you can, like, if you want. But it's kind of like with the guys, you know, And I'm like, okay, I can see that you're trying to include me, but also maybe that. Maybe it just isn't, like, the. The right time to. And I also don't think I would necessarily enjoy it that much anyway.
[00:46:05] Speaker B: Well, I think there's a difference between, like, just all the men doing something because they're all men and going to see a group of friends that is a specific group of friends, and they just all end up being guys. That's a very different story.
[00:46:16] Speaker A: Yeah, true, true.
[00:46:17] Speaker B: Whereas, like, the story I'm talking about, it's like all the men from the neighborhood would just, like, leave their houses and meet at the pub.
[00:46:23] Speaker A: Oh, just leave all of the women alone to, like. Yeah, yeah. But maybe. Maybe they are glad for it.
[00:46:34] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. It's just like, it's. It's hard because it's so dressed in tradition, like you say. But if it is something that it negatively impacts, like, your family, or at least just pointing it out is sometimes, like. Or even beforehand, if. If you do want to, like, seriously approach family members about this, this is something you should be doing before Christmas Day or before your holiday day and saying, like, hey, the last few years I've noticed this.
It, like, might be better because, you know, we're family, we don't get to see each other that much throughout the year. It'd be nice to actually, you know, spend these four, five, six hours you spend in the kitchen hanging out together. So maybe come in and help us chop stuff. We can listen to music together or, you know, just try and integrate things a little bit more. I think that should be done before. Like, again, it comes down to intent. Like, intent is so important.
[00:47:28] Speaker A: And I think we're kind of, I guess, is it probably not lucky, but we have quite a nice, like, Christmas Eve tradition where everybody is in the kitchen and, like, everyone takes, like, a different vegetable to chop or peel or whatever, or sets the table. So, like, Everybody mucks in on Christmas Eve, which is always, always nice. But then the stress is getting more on Christmas, Christmas Day. But I like the idea of, like, talking about it beforehand. Like, if you guys notice that this usually seems to happen, or we usually get pissed off with each other about this.
[00:48:01] Speaker B: Well, it's like, yeah, exactly. But it's the same thing as, like, pre planning your boundaries. It's like, if you can already protect the day for joy and fun and togetherness by like. Yeah, because. Because what ends up happening if you don't do that is these frustrations are going to come out in some way, shape or form on Christmas Day when everyone's been drinking, you've been around each other for hours on end. You know, they're like we talked about in the first episode. There's a mix of emotions going on that day, so it's better to just get it out of the way.
[00:48:33] Speaker A: Totally. And I also like this idea around, like the idea that helping out isn't the same as, like, having a shared responsibility for something.
[00:48:43] Speaker B: Oh, do not get me started on this.
I've literally been thinking about this, like people say, and it's often very gendered. Right. Is like, oh, do you like.
It happens a lot to parents who are men.
Right. It's like, oh, he's so good at helping with diapers. Well, no, that's his child. He's not helping with diapers. He also has a responsibility to change diapers or like feed or whatever. And so that's the same thing is like, it really does it. The helper is somebody who's being told what and when to do things. They're not, like, part of the project.
Whereas a shared responsibility for putting an amazing meal on the table for everyone.
[00:49:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:49:32] Speaker B: Is a shared responsibility that should involve, like, relatively equitable cognitive and emotional labor. And this is something I see a lot in the Christmas meals is women end up doing all the side dishes, which take so much time and energy. Like, there's so much prep because you're thinly slicing potatoes or carrots and you're like mixing. You're like doing stuffing and, you know, stuffing, like doing parsley. Like, you're literally in there for six hours. Where a lot of the time the men do the meat, which is firstly the feature usually of the dinner, whether it's like a turkey or steak. And so that's the main thing. And it usually takes significantly less time and planning because when you're doing all the side dishes, you've got to plan. Okay, this one takes 25 this one takes 20, this one takes 15. I have to have this one at this time. I have to, like, shuffle things around the oven.
Like, it takes a lot of labor and organizing.
[00:50:31] Speaker A: Whereas, like, they're like, oven shuffling is like a skill to behold that I don't have. My mum has that skill for sure.
[00:50:41] Speaker B: You should achieve my list.
[00:50:44] Speaker A: She burns herself a lot. But.
[00:50:46] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, that's inevitable. It's inevitable.
Yeah.
[00:50:54] Speaker A: But yeah, I think as well, they like that they're around the, like, helping and shared responsibility kind of piece.
I think, like, sometimes I even have to say, like, well, like, clarify to Matt. I'll be like, I know that you're telling me right now that, like, you want to help, but I'm like, I just don't even want to think about this thing. Like, take it out of my brain. You just tell me you're dealing with that and, like, I don't have to think about it anymore.
[00:51:23] Speaker B: But, yeah, I was just gonna say, like, sometimes it's not helping if you have to explain the thing. So, for example, like, like if you.
I actually use this example recently for somebody. I was talk. Trying to explain this to say you're, you're, you, like, you're used to getting all the main groceries for the house. So like the, you know, condiments, like a hot sauce or a ketchup or whatever, the laundry detergent just, you know, just like the standard things that aren't like, what we're doing for dinner tonight. It's. It's like not necessarily helpful to say, I'll help you with groceries, but really, you still have all that, like, okay, keeping track of how much of certain things we have. Do you know what I mean?
[00:52:09] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:52:09] Speaker B: It's like a very different approach. It's like, it's not the shared responsibility of groceries and it's like, it's only so helpful and heavy quotes if it's not a shared responsibility and you have to. And then there's the, like, even worse one when it's like, okay, well, I'll do dinner and I'll get the groceries for it. What do we need? And you're just like, that is the opposite of helpful.
[00:52:32] Speaker A: Yeah, like, I don't know.
[00:52:34] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Like, that's, that's the cognitive labor that takes a lot of work to like, just organize, check what. How much we have of everything.
Like, do we need, you know, chicken? Do we need whatever. Like, no, if you're going to be in charge of cooking and getting dinner, don't put that little bit on your Partner.
[00:52:53] Speaker A: Totally. You know what I even think, though, for, like, myself, like at Christmas at home, I could totally help more like with those sorts of things, especially because I kind of like go home and it's just like, ah, almost like everything's just sorted and nice, rather than me actually thinking, oh, actually does someone need me to help with something or could I get something or bring something? We do tend to have a list and we'll sometimes like, distribute the list, but then like you say, like, who's making the list or who's checking everything in the house and seeing what we have to start with and things like that.
So I could definitely, like, help more with certain things.
Yeah.
[00:53:33] Speaker B: And it's just also thinking about, like, you know, how much you want to do that. I mean, some families are very happy to have some people just chilling and the others, you know, there's different.
There's just. There's just personality types. So it's not like we need to get all intense all the time about it. It's just kind of really taking, like taking like the layout of your own system, I suppose.
[00:53:57] Speaker A: Yeah. So true. So true. So we want to, I guess, close up this series a little bit and just think about, I guess for us, like, what we're going to take away and kind of take from this. But I guess there's a bit of a just summary of what we've been through in this series. We kind of started with like, the longing or like the nostalgia for the holidays, like the reality and the stress. And then today, kind of talking a bit around how do we plan and prepare and perhaps like, recover or like, design a holiday that's actually going to be sustainable and kind of the different elements that come into that. So to finish, Kristen, is there, like, one thing that you're going to take away from either like, this series as a whole or from the episode today that you going to, like, think about as you move through.
[00:54:49] Speaker B: You know what this kind of made me think about or like, recognize is how, like how intense I've been about setting boundaries the last couple years.
This might be the first year where I'm going.
Okay. I've focused on boundaries and that has helped me a lot. Maybe this year I keep implementing those, but, like, I try to focus on the joy aspect and not the boundary aspect because I feel like I might have been like, very much feeling on the defensive the last couple years because I'm was trying to literally climb out of autistic burnout and really kind of like really struggling over the holidays. The Last couple years, they probably like more like three plus years just from spoons or lack thereof. But I've been just the spoon problem.
And so I think this year I might be better placed because I already know that I have these boundaries in place, these safeguards, and I know that my partner knows about them. And, like, we have boundaries there about what we can do.
This might be my year to more focus on, like, the joyous aspect of it.
[00:55:57] Speaker A: Yay. That's nice. Yeah, it's almost like.
Almost like smoothing out the edges a little bit of, like, those boundaries. Like, yes, there's still boundaries, but maybe there's a bit more space, like you say, for that joy within it and having to be, like you say, less defensive or rigid about it. There's still boundaries, still a very clear line, but there's almost a bit of smoothness about them.
[00:56:23] Speaker B: Definitely.
[00:56:25] Speaker A: I think I don't even know what my boundaries are.
I think I'm still just quite chaotic and like a moment by moment focus rather than like being prepared and expecting expectant of something or aware of my own energy or spoons, for example.
So I think this year is going to be a year for me kind of more trying to test stuff out, which I think is going to be really hard. And I kind of like, don't want to do it thinking of, I don't know, like, making decisions, say, around, like, new year or.
Or making decisions about just like, being on my own or like giving myself space or even like making a decision to like, not open up, like, my work laptop over, say, the Christmas week. For some reason in my mind, that feels like something that's gonna be difficult, but I think it's something that I just need to do.
[00:57:28] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:57:28] Speaker A: So I think I'm going to try and set some boundaries and just be kind to myself as I try and do it. And also think about what you mentioned in terms of recognizing almost like, why am I doing something? Am I doing it because I have energy for it and I want to do it, or am I doing it because I'm just feeling like I'm almost being driven by emotion that just won't stop and just need to breathe, stretch, sit down.
[00:58:00] Speaker B: I think that sounds. I mean, that's a lot of effort, but I think that it will also be.
You'll feel better for it, if that makes sense. It's like the drawer, but in a broader sense.
[00:58:12] Speaker A: The drawer. Yes, it's the drawer. It's like, at the moment, my drawer's a complete mess, but if I had some nice Little containers that started to separate out my stuff in the drawer. Then I'd be like, oh, yeah, look, there's a boundary there and a boundary there that I need to, you know, draw. Drawer theory. That's what we'll call it.
[00:58:31] Speaker B: Drawer theory. Yeah, Drawer spoon theory.
[00:58:34] Speaker A: Exactly. And I. I have lots of little tiny compartments in my drawers, but over time they become so messy that all of the lines blur. So there you go.
[00:58:46] Speaker B: Now you're making. Think me think of all the messy ass drawers I have in my house.
[00:58:50] Speaker A: And it's strange stressing me out.
It's. Yeah. Anyway, this time of year is when I always think about my messy drawers. So I. Yeah, when I get back after like the holiday week, I love.
[00:59:02] Speaker B: How that's a thing.
[00:59:03] Speaker A: Gonna be sorting everything out anyway. But. No, but you have to take the.
[00:59:09] Speaker B: Holiday week off and relax.
[00:59:10] Speaker A: Relaxation.
[00:59:12] Speaker B: Boundaries and rests. Yes, just repeat that mantra. Boundaries and rest.
[00:59:17] Speaker A: I'll feed back in the new year. Oh, my goodness. Before we do a cosy thing, did you listen to my Christmas playlist?
[00:59:24] Speaker B: Yes, I really enjoyed it. Yes, I enjoyed it a lot. It will be played much more now, like over the weekend and stuff like that. I want to listen to it again while I'm cooking over the weekend. But it was good. It was good tree decoration music.
[00:59:41] Speaker A: I am glad. Okay. I hope you continue to enjoy it. Thank you for your review. That sounds like. It sounds like, like a 4 review.
[00:59:51] Speaker B: Yeah. Because there was definitely like some more British ones that I still struggled to wrap my own really.
But like, I. I still really enjoyed it because it was like the kind of music I like anyway. Do you know what I mean? Because we have quite similar taste in music and there were some fun ones on there.
[01:00:09] Speaker A: I. I want you to, if you. Oh, yeah, go. Sorry. There you go.
[01:00:12] Speaker B: No, that's what I just remembered something. You go.
[01:00:15] Speaker A: I was gonna say, if you find like the British ones that you like, don't like, tell me which ones they are because I. I'll send them to.
[01:00:22] Speaker B: You when I'm listening to it, I'll.
[01:00:23] Speaker A: What's happening to you?
[01:00:24] Speaker B: Or something.
[01:00:24] Speaker A: Amazing. Thank you.
[01:00:26] Speaker B: Thank you also, guys.
Well, it wasn't a very thorough one, but now we did it at the end of the episode.
We also wanted to mention for our January series, we're gonna do a version of kind of like reading Reddit stories or giving advice advice or whatever. Like, you know, kind of. Am I the kind of vibes? If so, we're going to be doing that just for fun, to give us a bit of A break from all this, like, psychosocial planning that can be quite cognitively taxing to design some of these episodes, guys. So we're just gonna have some fun in January, but if you have any kind of. Am I the assholes or kind of seeking advice that, you know, for. For like a situation that maybe happened over the holidays or something like that, that, please send them in, feel free to, you know, DM us. DM us on, like, Instagram comments or anything like that. All of our contact details are on the link tree in the bios. So, yeah, we'd love to hear from listeners as well. We've had some fun input in the past from you guys about some stuff, so want to, you know, try and get you guys more involved.
So on that note, happy holidays, everyone, and we are coming to a close. Thank you so much for being with us this last year and for listening.
We've probably left you with a year of more questions than answers, but as you know, that is the point of us.
I'm sorry.
We did love digging into the messy undercurrents of kind of sustainable holidays and how that looks. So if you have any thoughts or questions, please get in touch.
If there's a topic you're interested, let us interested in, let us know, please, because we know we love a good rabbit hole. If you like the episode, please don't forget to, like, rate, follow Scream from the Rooftops and tell your friends.
You can find all of our links in the but why Instagram page. Please head to the bio for everything. And remember, the first step to understanding is asking, but why.
[01:02:30] Speaker A: Sam?
