Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:13] Speaker B: Welcome to but why? Real Talk on Messy Minds and Messier Systems, the podcast where two psychologists overanalyze everything so you don't have to. We're here to unpack the weird, the worrying and the wildly unjust with just enough existential dread to keep it interesting. Hi, I'm Dr. Kristen.
[00:00:29] Speaker A: And I'm Dr. Laura. Let's dive into the mess.
[00:00:33] Speaker A: So today it's our first Christmas episode, which is fun. So we are in December, which is nice.
So we're kicking off our holiday series thinking about nostalgia, which I'm quite excited for. I have been thinking about all week.
So we're going to have a chat around, like, I guess in the series as a whole, around expectations and reality of the holidays and the recovery plan that we might need following the holidays.
But today we're going to start with nostalgia. So this kind of emotional time machine, if you like, that kind of makes us really sentimental around this time of the year. At least that's how I end up feeling, whether it's from, like, hearing certain songs, putting up a Christmas tree, things like that. So we're going to chat about nostalgia from, like, a psychological lens and kind of why, I guess, we feel it so much and why it feels quite important, I suppose, to a lot of us.
And we're going to share some of our holiday rituals, which I am very excited about. I know, but Kristin, tell us, I suppose, before we jump into it, how are you?
[00:01:49] Speaker B: It's been five days and I've already had a really bad illness following a conference and a medical procedure, and I'm still recovering. Took two days off of work and have a billion emails, and I'm just excited to get to, like, mid December where it starts to wind down a little bit. I just feel, like, so excited for mid December. Yeah.
[00:02:14] Speaker A: Oh, my goodness. Yeah.
[00:02:16] Speaker B: It's going to be amazing. And then I can start, I feel like, because the way my brain works, it's hard for me, especially during the week, to get into the vibe of something if I'm so distracted with something, like, work or, like, it's just like something's preoccupying my brain, but I need to get a bit better about it. I'm trying to, like, on the weekends, do, like, Christmas decorating and all that kind of stuff. And we're gonna go get our tree today, like, and try and lean into it a little bit. Yeah.
[00:02:42] Speaker A: Yes. I think that's what I was. I was feeling not longer because when. So we got back from the conference, which must have. When was that? Two weeks ago.
[00:02:51] Speaker B: Is it already two weeks ago?
[00:02:52] Speaker A: I don't know. Actually, I could be lying about.
[00:02:54] Speaker B: We were around. Oh, today's Friday.
[00:02:57] Speaker A: Were we arriving two weeks ago?
[00:02:59] Speaker B: Oh, no, we were coming home two weeks ago. So for context that no one else knows.
[00:03:06] Speaker B: We went to a conference called Games Conference, Global alliance for Mental Health and Sport. And it, it was quite a cool conference. It was a lot. We were there for four days.
Laura was in the first global mental health esports. Kind of like trying to figure out a strategy for mental health and esports, which was amazing. And I won an award for best presentation. So we both had some pretty crazy, like career moments, didn't we?
[00:03:39] Speaker A: Yeah, we did fun things and felt like adults and it was cool.
[00:03:44] Speaker B: Yeah. And then.
[00:03:46] Speaker A: And then, then afterwards we completely shut down.
I had a nightmare with trains. Oh, my God. I thought I was going to die in Euston Station, but I was fine. Eventually.
[00:03:59] Speaker B: Literally the worst.
[00:04:00] Speaker A: That's the thing though, isn't it? I think with like going away, like to conferences, it's so social. Like you feel like you've got to be on like all the time.
Even though you're around some, a lot of fantastic and amazing people that you really want to be with. It's still that hit afterwards where it's like all of the social interaction, all of the pre planning stuff, like all of the, the travel just.
[00:04:29] Speaker B: And it compounds, it compounds like day by day as well. Like it doesn't like reset overnight, it just gets worse and worse and worse and.
Yeah, and also lugging all your through London. Like, and for some reason I brought a huge suitcase that was like 60 pounds.
[00:04:48] Speaker A: It was, it was a very big suitcase.
But I love that for you. Like, yeah, I, I love that.
[00:04:57] Speaker B: I've just accepted that. It's who I am.
[00:04:59] Speaker A: Yeah, it's who I think in. I would love to take a suitcase that big. But then I'm balancing up the inconvenience and stress of the lugging around of said large suitcase rather than having a convenient small suitcase. So I feel like I've got to like weigh up the pros and cons.
[00:05:18] Speaker B: Oh, 100% I did that. Like me trying to navigate the train. Like the long train is one thing, but the train to get from London from Euston to like the smaller train station is so busy. It was at rush hour and I was just there, like sitting on my giant suitcase next to the bathroom on the train. Like, oh my God. Like it was the most confusing train too because the front six.
[00:05:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:46] Speaker B: Go one place and the Back six, detach and go somewhere else. I was like, if I get on the wrong train right now at 5.30pm in London with my massive ass suitcase and a heavy work bag, I'm going to flip my.
[00:05:59] Speaker A: Oh yeah.
I actually think we could have been anywhere on the train though because it only detached after our stop. So you would have been fine.
[00:06:07] Speaker B: Okay, that's good to know. After the fact, two weeks later.
[00:06:11] Speaker A: Cuz I thought, I thought exactly the same thing. I was like, oh my God, I'm going to be in the wrong place. But.
[00:06:17] Speaker B: But you know what the, you know what the most stressful, confusing thing was? They were like, okay, the first six. So like trains one or whatever. What are they called?
[00:06:28] Speaker A: Carriages.
[00:06:29] Speaker B: Carriages one through six.
And they're not numbered, they're lettered. So it's carriage A, B, C, D, E, F. So it was like sitting there like trying to like. I felt so dumb. I was like A, you're listening and not watching. I'm counting on my fingers. A, B, C, D.
So I was like, oh my God, why would you do it this way? Why don't you just say like A through F, go one way and then G through whatever.
[00:06:56] Speaker A: You would think that would make sense. But alas, Transport.
[00:07:00] Speaker B: Alas.
[00:07:01] Speaker A: This is why travel is so stressful.
[00:07:03] Speaker B: Exactly, exactly. Do you like my Christmas sweater?
[00:07:08] Speaker A: Oh yes.
[00:07:09] Speaker B: Well, you can't really see much of it.
[00:07:10] Speaker A: Patriarchy.
[00:07:12] Speaker B: Patriarchy with unicorns on it.
[00:07:14] Speaker A: Beautiful.
[00:07:15] Speaker B: Nice Christmas overalls.
[00:07:18] Speaker A: Oh yeah. They are so Christmassy.
[00:07:22] Speaker A: I haven't worn these in ages. Every time I put them on I like feel like I'm gonna go like paint a wall or something.
[00:07:32] Speaker A: I still don't know how I feel about dungaroos. But you know, here I am wearing dungarees.
[00:07:38] Speaker B: I feel like you pull them off.
[00:07:40] Speaker A: Thank you. I'll accept, I'll accept that. Yeah. Yes.
Oh but so, so when I got back, when I got back from games, I was talking to my mum and we were talking about, I think we were talking about Christmas. This links into the episode by the way. So we were talking about Christmas and so I just got back from the conference was like completely shut down and I was just like, you know what, I think I might just not put up my Christmas decorations this year. Like I just can't be bothered because I was like, I go to like to my parents house because Christmas anyway, so I was like, you know, what does it really matter?
But I, I am the biggest Christmas lover. Like I love having the decorations up and things. So my mum replied like Laura, if you're thinking about not putting up your Christmas decorations, you really need to seriously rethink what you're doing right now.
[00:08:33] Speaker B: Like, oh, my God.
[00:08:34] Speaker A: Like, you are so right. Like, what is happening to me?
[00:08:37] Speaker B: Yeah. You need to question your life.
Yeah.
[00:08:41] Speaker A: You just sort yourself out if you're not gonna get the Christmas decorations.
So that was quite insightful. And then I think maybe, like, the week after, I was like, I'm just gonna put up the Christmas decorations. So we actually put them up. We put them up quite early, actually, but it was nice. They feel much better now.
So there we go.
[00:09:00] Speaker B: We started ours last weekend. I, like, make to make. I guess we'll save this for the episode, I guess.
[00:09:06] Speaker A: Okay. Yes. So we're gonna go into nostalgia then. But I wanted to. I want to kind of put a little note in before we start because we want to recognize that, like, while we're going to, I suppose, hopefully talk about kind of.
[00:09:26] Speaker A: I guess, kind of fond memories like we have from the holiday season. We recognize that for a lot of people around this time of year, it can actually be quite difficult.
You know, whether we have kind of difficult memories that might come up from our past in terms of Christmas, or sometimes even thinking about past loved ones around this time of year can be really hard.
[00:09:53] Speaker A: So we just want to kind of bring that to light. If you're the sort of person who might find, I guess, talking about nostalgia around this time of year difficult, then, yeah, take care of yourself as we're talking through today.
[00:10:08] Speaker A: But hopefully, you know, it can bring up some nostalgic memories for you. I mean, nostalgia in itself, it's. It's not.
It's not like a perfect record. It's often picking out the things that we want to remember. And so a lot of us, even if we've had some hard times, like around the holidays, we'll hopefully have some things we can look at with a. With a bit of joy and bring some fun, I guess, into this time of year.
So, yeah, just keeping that in mind. Nostalgia can bring comfort, can also bring grief, can also bring sadness, bit of sweetness. I definitely get a lot of that around this time of year. So I just wanted to kind of bring that up at the beginning as almost just a little.
Yeah, keep yourself safe as we're going through, but we're gonna try and be happy for once. We're gonna try and be like, we're usually quite existentially. We're gonna try hard to make this quite a positive episode.
[00:11:06] Speaker B: I love how you're like, this episode is about nostalgia, which inherently is emotionally loaded. And you're like, we might, we're gonna try not to get existential.
[00:11:17] Speaker A: Well, oh gosh, it's going to get existential, isn't it? Definitely. Oh, well, we'll see.
[00:11:22] Speaker B: As you were saying that I was like actually like unpacking some of the happy, nostalgic memories I have. And I'm like, actually that does have like a twinge of X, Y and Z. And it's like everything that is human, it's messy. And so sometimes I think it's almost better to not put a rose colored glass on everything and just understand the nuance of it. But that also might not be the approach everyone wants to take. Some people want to just have a happy memory, say a happy memory, which I totally get.
[00:11:51] Speaker A: Just one happy moment. I know, yeah.
[00:11:55] Speaker A: So I guess then we'll, we'll start with what actually is nostalgia and why does this time of the year bring it up?
[00:12:05] Speaker A: So when we think about, I guess, nostalgia, it can, or when we feel nostalgic, it can be really beneficial for us as human beings, not just kind of something that's sentimental kind of around this time of the year. So it can actually give us like this a sense of continuity. So in previous episodes we've spoken about like identity a lot and our own identities and things like that. But within that, it's really, it can be really important and beneficial for us to feel like a sense of continuity in our identities. So being able to connect with who we were in the past, like who we are now.
And this supports a development of like stable identity.
[00:12:53] Speaker A: But the memory that we, the memories we have, I guess that kind of bring up nostalgia aren't necessarily or are not a perfect recording of what's happened. So when we remember, our brains will reconstruct. Events will often kind of smooth over. Some of the things we, we would prefer to forget, often the negative things and emphasize positive ones. So this can make the past feel like you said, Chris, like have this like rose tinted kind of glasses over if you like. And like, I always think of this when I think back to like Christmas memories when I was younger. I always see them like so amazing and fantastic. And I'm like, you know what, I was probably like crying on the floor half of the time.
[00:13:39] Speaker A: But I don't remember that bit. You know, you remember all of the.
[00:13:44] Speaker A: Yeah, all of the kind of positive memories. More so because of this kind of process our brains go through when we're kind of recalling memories and so on.
[00:13:57] Speaker A: And actually if we engage with nostalgia, we tend to.
So like, if we're reminiscing on things that are positive, so reminiscing on positive memories, it can actually have benefits for our mental health. So like reduced stress with this greater sense of meaning in our lives.
[00:14:16] Speaker A: This kind of continuity, like, like I was saying, so it kind of helps us to make sense of who we are and it, it can also kind of be protective against some things like, like depression and anxiety, even if people have had difficult pasts.
[00:14:32] Speaker A: So. Yeah, I don't know. Kristen, any thoughts on this so far?
[00:14:36] Speaker B: I'm thinking of like, why these are so important. These like nostalgia is so strong around the holidays and why these memories. And I'm just thinking about like how important ritual is to humans and how like there's always been. Obviously we know, we say Christmas talk a little bit about Christmas as like a broader holiday construct. Right. But there's always been holidays to mark certain times of year because of like how we evolved and bring us together. And I just feel like that's so interesting to me that it's such a, like a evolutionary adaptation to have nostalgia around these things because it's like that group cohesion thing as well.
[00:15:20] Speaker B: And how like we could all be doing the same thing on, you know, like in England you guys do like Sunday dinner. A lot of families do every Sunday doing a Sunday dinner. But you don't.
Yeah, but you don't necessarily tie. It's almost the same meal. Right. But you don't necessarily meal. Yeah. And you don't, you don't tie the same like nostalgia to that every single week as you do like Christmas and things like that. And so it's just really interesting to me the like almost selective nostalgia that gets applied to certain like holidays. Do you know what I mean? Like Halloween or Christmas or you know, various different ones. And I just, I'm wondering from like an evolutionary or like psychological point of view why that is.
[00:16:05] Speaker A: Yeah, and I think like you said, there's a lot around that social connectedness part as well.
So I guess with you're building bonds, relationships and so on, feeling belonging, like the shared community side of it.
But I wonder if there's something. Because I do think back kind of fondly, like when I was younger we would have Sunday, you know, lunch or whatever.
But it, yeah, it's not the same like nostalgia. I don't know, is it? Because there's not as much of like a build up. We'll talk about build up in a, in a bit like there not enough as as much stuff around it or it doesn't feel as like collective in a sense that like everybody is.
[00:16:49] Speaker A: You know, I guess buying into this time of year. Like you go out like into town and there's like Christmas decorations everywhere and it's like there's so many like sensory things just like in your like day to day environment. From like music to. Yeah. Lights and things like that which perhaps bring up like a greater sense of nostalgia.
[00:17:12] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I totally agree with that because you're like the like senses of smell and hearing are so tied to memory.
So I feel like just that it's all around you all the time might bring up more memories and then you might be more programmed to look at them fondly. Especially because it's like a meaningful time of year or. Yeah, it's just. It's really interesting.
Yeah. I don't really think about nostalgia very often. When I think tend to think of Christmas. I tend to think about like how the holiday was co opted from the pagans and all that. Like I always like.
[00:17:48] Speaker A: Not today.
[00:17:49] Speaker B: Not today, Kristen.
[00:17:50] Speaker A: Not today. Today.
[00:17:51] Speaker B: Shut up. So like I just like I. It's just so interesting to think about it from this point of view and not like the other side.
[00:17:59] Speaker A: Not the other side.
Just. Yeah. Like surface level. Enduring it for what it is. Like that's not.
[00:18:07] Speaker B: We're allowed.
[00:18:07] Speaker A: Can't do that.
[00:18:08] Speaker B: We're allowed to do that. No.
[00:18:13] Speaker A: But I guess maybe kind of thinking about, I suppose these early memories. Like do you have any early like nostalgic Christmas memories that come to mind for you?
[00:18:23] Speaker B: I have so many. The early ones, well you know, just like the normal kind of like waking up on Christmas morning. But I was actually just talking to Jack about this last night because we did Christmas Eve with my grandparents on my mom's side and Christmas Day with our family because we lived in a different state from the rest of our family. Like our. But like the big kind of.
I almost said my last name there.
The big kind of like Irish side of our family was like on the mainland and we were in Hawaii and so we did Christmas Eve with them and it was always so special because we were super young and so they would still pretend Santa came at night or like at. In the like the late afternoon when it got dark. So they would put us all to bed for a nap and like put out presents. And obviously while we were taking our winter's nap they were all like having a few drinks and acts and listening to Christmas music and like perfect. A few hours without the kids while they basically had some drinks and put out presents and, like, had a good time. And then my grandpa, who had, like, this really, like, deep baritone voice, was a really good singer, would, like, jingle these, like, really intense Christmas bells that sounded so realistic and go, ho, ho, ho. And like, pretend that Santa was just leaving. And then they'd all shout and be like, oh, my God, I see him.
[00:19:47] Speaker A: He's up there.
[00:19:47] Speaker B: He's just bit.
[00:19:48] Speaker A: I.
[00:19:48] Speaker B: We totally missed him. How did that happen? And then we'd all sprint out as kids, like, ah, my God. And then we would open. We just, like, made into, like, such a special thing.
And then when I had to, like, go along with it also, just. Just a quick tip to any parents out there. We will be discussing the nuance of Santa.
[00:20:09] Speaker A: So. Yes.
[00:20:10] Speaker B: The nuances of Santa. So.
[00:20:12] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:20:13] Speaker B: Yeah. So. So be prepared, Gino. Maybe. Maybe not for the kitties today.
You know, if you're listening, are we ever for the. That is a good point.
Well, it depends on how much you.
[00:20:25] Speaker A: Have been tours with your children.
[00:20:28] Speaker A: Maybe not this time.
[00:20:29] Speaker B: That's hilarious. Because it's like, the only happy episode.
[00:20:35] Speaker B: But when I was, like, I had to, like, go along with it for a while after I knew about Santa because, okay, my siblings were. I was the oldest and my siblings, so I would, like, be forced to, like, go in and, like, pretend to sleep, but I would just sit there and read.
[00:20:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:49] Speaker B: And then once I was, like, finally, like, old enough to hang out with the adults in my teens, I was like, oh, so this is what you've been doing the whole time, like, drinking and eating food? I'm like, this is awesome.
[00:21:01] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, you don't need the nap anymore.
I feel like when I. When I, like, realized Santa. This is warning. Turn the volume down if children are around. When I realized Santa didn't exist, I still. I felt quite, like, defensive about it. Do you know what I mean? I was like, I feel like I'd known for a while, but I was very like, I don't want to believe that he isn't real. Do you know what I mean? I think I was quite old when I was finding, like.
[00:21:29] Speaker B: Okay, how old were you.
[00:21:33] Speaker B: Probably?
[00:21:34] Speaker A: Like.
[00:21:37] Speaker A: I don't really know. I could have been around, like, 12 or something.
[00:21:43] Speaker B: But that's nice.
[00:21:45] Speaker A: I think I was holding on to the hope. Yeah, it could have been more like 10.
I'm not very good at remembering my ages. It's probably between 10, 10 to 12. I remember I had a present that because my mum, she still, to this day, like, Will put, like, Santa presents in a separate bag to the presents that, like, are from the parent.
[00:22:08] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:22:08] Speaker A: My mom does the same, so it's like, oh, yeah, Santa, obviously.
[00:22:14] Speaker A: But I remember one year, I got a present that was meant to be from Santa, and then my auntie came.
[00:22:20] Speaker B: Over to me, and she was like.
[00:22:21] Speaker A: Oh, was this okay? I bought this for you in the shop. Was the size all right?
[00:22:25] Speaker B: And I was like, my goodness.
[00:22:26] Speaker A: But Santa gave this to me.
[00:22:29] Speaker B: Like, the illusion is shattered.
[00:22:31] Speaker A: I know.
So I remember that. And just standing there being like, no.
[00:22:38] Speaker B: What do I do?
I think I must have been, like, seven or eight. And just me being me as well. Just, like, already, like, that makes sense.
[00:22:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:49] Speaker B: Something is off. There's something. Whereas I'm like, whole joy thing. That's got to be real.
And I'm like, I don't know about this something here. And I was really into spy stuff at the time. I don't know if you ever went through this phase or, like, yeah, spy gadgets, the things you put on the.
[00:23:04] Speaker A: Wall with the headphones and, like.
[00:23:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I love. I had, like, little traps everywhere and everything. So I was like, I'm gonna be a spy, and I'm gonna figure this out.
And literally all I did is, like. We had this balcony when we lived in California, and I could just see the tree there. And I just sat on the balcony, hidden, and I was just using one of those little mirrors to look behind, and I just saw, like, presents just sitting there and my parents just walking in and out of the room. And I was like, I knew it.
But then for. For their sake, I pretended for a couple more years.
[00:23:41] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:23:41] Speaker B: To believe I didn't tell them. And then eventually, like, I never actually told them.
They just, like. I don't know.
[00:23:48] Speaker A: They probably knew.
[00:23:49] Speaker B: Not. Not when I was seven. I was masking at the age of eight.
[00:23:53] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:23:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:23:57] Speaker A: It's kind of sad, isn't it? Like, when I think that sort of shatters. Well, maybe not.
[00:24:04] Speaker B: Are we already getting existential? Like, we're like, 25 minutes.
[00:24:08] Speaker A: Yeah, we might as well get existential now. But I. I don't know. I think that, like.
[00:24:17] Speaker A: I think that there's almost this.
At least. I always feel like there's almost this, like, want to believe in something, like, magical or, you know, something that's, like, slightly different around, like, the time of the year. Like, it still. Like, my mum, she will still, like, put the stocking on our. Like, the doorknob of our bedroom doors. Like, oh, before, like, you know, in the Middle of the night now I can hear it because we kind of go to bed at the same time. But still, like, it still feels, like, magical to, like, wake up and be like, oh, this is stocking on my door. And then me and my sister will go into each other's rooms or whatever, like, and we'll sit in bed together and, like, open our stockings before we go downstairs.
So I think, like, even if there's certain things that maybe we don't, like, believe in anymore, there's still nostalgia, like, within those, like, you say, the rituals almost, that still stay alive.
[00:25:14] Speaker A: So, yeah, it's nice. But I guess, like, on that, I suppose, why do we try so hard, like, to keep this nostalgia alive?
And again, it comes back to, like, what we were saying before around.
[00:25:32] Speaker A: Our identity. So it keeps us connected to our identities or at least the identities we once had.
So whether we were that excited and, like, hopeful child or.
Yeah, like an excited version, like, carefree version of ourselves. You know what I mean?
[00:25:51] Speaker A: There's a nice quote I found when I was, like, doing some reading up around this.
So this is. So. It's a quote from T.S. eliot, and he described nostalgia as.
So you are not the same people who left that station or who will arrive at any terminus. So it's this idea that we wake up every morning as a slightly different person, like a slightly different version of ourselves.
And I think that can sometimes be quite hard in a way. Like, to think about how we are kind of changing our identities, I suppose, is shifting in a sense, so often.
[00:26:33] Speaker A: And often in.
I guess because we are around all the time with ourselves, we kind of don't notice it. Like, I think about, like, my past self or, like, my youngest, younger parts of myself and sometimes can, like, feel sad that I'm not, like, more like that person or not as connected to that person. And I think around this time of year, I feel so much more connected to my younger self.
[00:26:58] Speaker B: Yeah, I. I'd like. Yeah, I think that's such a cool way of looking at it because you really don't reflect on the younger version of yourself very often. And it's also fun.
[00:27:09] Speaker A: I do too much.
[00:27:10] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, not like the happy. Yeah, I don't.
[00:27:15] Speaker A: I don't.
[00:27:15] Speaker B: I only, like, compare it to, like, every once in a while I'm like, oh, yeah, I used to do that. And that was masking or that was mal. Or that was that.
[00:27:23] Speaker A: You're right. The things that were, like, quote unquote weird.
[00:27:27] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I don't. I don't really think about like the person as a person. I don't think about like her. Do you know what I mean? I think about like behaviors. Oh, interesting. No, I think because I find it really sad. I, I, I think about it like it's like really sad for me to think about honestly because like being so he heavily masked and like just like, I mean you've read my autoethnography. Like it's a really, it's kind of sad when I talk about like the pre. So I don't really like think about it but I do when it's like a nostalgic time and it's happy. So obviously I'm engaging in some avoidant coping mechanisms there but we don't need to dig into that today.
[00:28:06] Speaker A: Yeah. So do you think it makes you feel, so it makes you feel more connected but in a positive way, I guess to your younger self?
[00:28:15] Speaker B: Yeah, I think so. Just like the fun things that it's, it's all. Yeah, I think so.
I'm trying to think like I don't really know.
[00:28:26] Speaker A: It's hard, isn't it? Yeah.
Because I think we can also feel like the sense of nostalgia without necessarily thinking about our past self or like our younger selves.
But I definitely have some memories that stand out where I am very much thinking about like me as I don't know, like that 10 year old or whatever or.
[00:28:46] Speaker A: Yeah.
And with kind of thinking about or almost like in a sense we can be like meeting ourselves from like previous years. And I think also because obviously it's kind of cyclical and marking time, we can even think back to just like last year, like where were we at? So it can be quite like reflective in like a positive way to, to mark that point in time. And I guess same with things like the new year, we start kind of thinking and planning of what we want to do next and what's important to us and all of these sorts of conversations start to come up along with perhaps that reconnection with our identity.
[00:29:26] Speaker B: I think that's so important because especially because we are so aware as humans. Well, some of us are, others are not. It's really important to have, it's really.
[00:29:40] Speaker B: Strengthening. It's really like it feels like stable because you're evolving a little bit every year. Right. And so these tie, these let you reflect on who you were a year ago, five years ago, but also give you that through line of identity at the same time. So it's extremely comforting psychologically to actually, actually engage with growth on that level.
[00:30:03] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:30:04] Speaker B: Unless, like, instead of something like, you know, something that's really challenging, maybe that you're going to like, therapy for or something like that, there's less positive emotions tied to reflecting on the past and like that through line.
[00:30:17] Speaker A: Yes. So like, brings us. It brings us back to ourselves in like this kind of potentially, like, slightly softer kind of way, in a sense.
And I think that one of the things that I guess allows us to do this is by engaging in rituals. Right. So the holiday nostalgic rituals. And Kristen, you have some amazing rituals and I would love for you to share with us what are your rituals and I guess how they keep the nostalgia alive.
[00:30:50] Speaker B: Well, first, the first one I love is for, well, being autistic. I love a ritual. Maybe that's why I love every single holiday so much, is because I can just engage. It's like socially normal to engage in a ritual, like constantly. And I love the ritual of just like coming down on Christmas morning. I just love that feeling. Like I have my special Santa coffee mug and I have my coffee, then doing the stockings and then I just love that feeling. And it still feels quite magical to me, even though it's literally just me and Jack. You know what I mean?
A newer ritual that Laura has recently been made aware of.
Maybe we'll give you guys a little tease to it. I don't know.
[00:31:36] Speaker B: Because I am actually, I want to preface this by saying, like, the ritual thing for me is hard because my rituals are all based. We know how memory works. Right. Is very tied to location because of the sensory experiences, like sight, smell, things like that.
My, my. Most of my Christmas memories are in Colorado in the snow. You literally look out your side, out your window on Christmas and you see a moose, like, and it's snowing. And. And like now you've just got the.
[00:32:05] Speaker A: Rain in Manchester, literally. And.
[00:32:08] Speaker B: And so I really struggled with that for the first few Christmases. And even Jack's dad, the first year I moved here, rented a snow machine to try and make me feel more at home. And so, like, when we, like, started celebrating, he, like, he was like on the roof for like three hours. We're like, where?
What are you doing? And all of a sudden he like, turns it on and he's like, kristen, I got snow for you. But it was too warm, so it just started raining.
[00:32:36] Speaker B: So cute. It's so sad.
I know. I was like, like, they. That made me feel more at home than anything. But I really struggled to find my rituals when I moved here because a lot of it revolves around Snow and family. I'm from a very big family and we have rituals together. And so that was, like, really tough for me when I moved over here. So I've had to do a lot of new rituals with, you know, moving abroad and stuff like that, and somewhere that definitely doesn't have snow and has occasion very occasionally and then you don't know how to deal with it. And it's really stressful and has very different Christmas music. Like, it's very different to find.
[00:33:15] Speaker A: Is it. Is it very.
[00:33:16] Speaker B: Oh, my music.
[00:33:17] Speaker A: God.
[00:33:18] Speaker B: What's the one that, like, they're basically just like, yelling at each other. It's very different when they're yelling. So Christmas, they're like. It's like the couple fighting.
It's like a really old Christmas song. You'll recognize it if I played it.
[00:33:31] Speaker A: You've got to send it later.
[00:33:33] Speaker B: Yeah, I will. Maybe.
[00:33:35] Speaker A: I want you to send me, like, an American Christmas song playlist.
[00:33:39] Speaker B: Well, I can't. Like, I'm having a hard time finding any good ones. Like, literally the last several years, literally, when we were decorating last weekend, I just put on instrumental Christmas music. So I just gave up. Oh, really?
[00:33:51] Speaker A: I'll have to send you my. I'm gonna send you my. Oh, my goodness. This is something I wanted to talk about, actually. But I'm gonna send you my Christmas playlist and you can. You can rate it and see.
[00:34:01] Speaker B: Do you want to expand on that or do you want me to continue with mine?
[00:34:04] Speaker A: I just think my Christmas playlist is the best Christmas playlist.
[00:34:07] Speaker B: Oh, I'm very excited.
[00:34:09] Speaker A: I'm going to expand on this in a moment. You finish with your point.
[00:34:11] Speaker B: Send. Send me. Send me your Christmas wish list. Do not send me your. I won't be able to do everything.
[00:34:18] Speaker B: A car.
[00:34:22] Speaker B: Yeah. So I've developed new rituals and the reason that's related is, firstly, I think it's important to note that rituals change and there is that level of, like, sadness in the nostalgia for me sometimes. But because I'm so far away, I can't engage in Secret Santa with my family. So my sister.
My sister, I might have to say Laura tops you in love of Christmas.
[00:34:48] Speaker A: She is fine.
[00:34:50] Speaker B: Christmas personified.
[00:34:53] Speaker A: I think I'm quite like a quiet lover. I. I'm not gonna dress up. I'm not gonna sing, but yeah.
[00:35:03] Speaker B: Oh, why don't you sing? Please do.
[00:35:05] Speaker A: I'll sing on my own.
[00:35:10] Speaker B: I. I need you for our last Christmas episode, to have a Christmas outfit.
[00:35:19] Speaker A: I. Oh, oh, no, sorry. Can't.
[00:35:26] Speaker B: Think about it. Think about it. Think about it.
[00:35:28] Speaker A: I was thinking there's something. No, I can't. It's a. It's present related, so for my. My sister. So if you're listening, Hannah.
Yeah, that's. It's your fault.
[00:35:42] Speaker B: Okay, well, we'll think of something. We'll think of something.
Where was I going? Oh, yes.
So she was like, okay, well, will you be in charge of. And this is only 2, 3 years old of like doing the Secret Santa, like, stalking announcement to everyone, which she usually sends out this like, like cute little, like Christmassy message to people. Like, you have xyz. Here are the things that doesn't really make any sense what I just said, but that's essentially it. And so me being me, decided to escalate it significantly and very significantly, very significantly and started making like, videos to send to everyone as like a mission to do like a Secret Santa thing. So I do that every single year now. And it started with like me being like an elf at the North Pole and like the Krumpus was coming. And if you didn't get your.
If you didn't get your stocking on time within like the 30 limit or whatever, the Crumpus was probably gonna murder Santa.
[00:36:49] Speaker A: Oh my goodness. That escalated quickly.
[00:36:53] Speaker B: It did. That was the first one.
[00:36:59] Speaker B: This year was a James Bond theme. As you have seen the video, Laura.
[00:37:04] Speaker A: I still saw this year's and I saw last year's as well.
[00:37:09] Speaker B: So Laura has had the interesting experience. You learned a lot about me, I think, from those videos. That's not a sign I let many people see.
[00:37:17] Speaker A: I love that side. I wish I could be more like that. But that's where. No, my fear lies in. In that, that area.
[00:37:24] Speaker B: I might, I might give you guys a little look into my outfit for this year's video. If you keep watching our. Our episodes. Our Christmas episodes.
[00:37:34] Speaker A: Yes. Ah, fun, fun, fun. Motivation to keep going. Stay with us, guys. You might get some Christmas outfits. Oh, yeah.
[00:37:45] Speaker A: But this, I think kind of fits nicely into one of the points I wanted to make around like childhood memories as like emotional glue, if you like. So we have these memories which end up being almost like blueprints for that, like, togetherness, the like, community or like kind of bringing up the nostalgia. So it's almost like you've had to kind of rebuild those blueprints a little bit because they're not just.
Yeah, you're not in the same place location kind of anymore or like with your family. So you've built like new blueprints for like this time of Year.
[00:38:25] Speaker A: And I guess like on the flip side, like I've. I've think I. Apart from one year, I've always had Chris. Well, not always.
Always had Christmas in like my parents home, if you like, or my home. We only moved once. So literally I've had Christmas in two houses and then once we were away, which we were all very upset about, so we never did it ever again.
[00:38:53] Speaker A: So I think that's kind of for me, like, it is very like a lot of childhood memories because we just basically do exactly the same thing every single time. And it's great and I love it, but kind of same as you. Like, I love just the waking up on Christmas morning and the routine that kind of comes along with that. And it's also often quieter at that time because it tends to just be me, my sister, my mum and dad before like everybody arrives. And it's just nice like and cozy or being together. So I do like that.
[00:39:23] Speaker B: It just feels quite special for Christmas. I know this is getting me like in a much better mood and excited for Christmas.
[00:39:31] Speaker A: We're doing something right.
[00:39:34] Speaker A: So yeah, it's kind of like. So that emotional glue and almost like safety and again, continuity kind of associated with that. I think something else that I find brings up a lot of nostalgia is just around like Christmas films and the films I watch. So me and my sister are big Christmas film watchers and we tend to have to message each other, like, which films do we need to save this year, like to watch together? Because I'm gonna go through like, I've already started watching Christmas films, so I need to be like, which ones should I save? I've already watched Home Alone and Part of the Santa Claus. The Santa Claus is my favorite Christmas film ever.
[00:40:13] Speaker B: Me too.
[00:40:14] Speaker A: It is the best.
[00:40:16] Speaker B: So, okay. I don't know if you guys. The direction, I don't know if this is the direction you want to go. Like, do you want to talk about like movies right now? Like what we do?
So I firstly, I love Christmas movies as well. I think it's one of the ways that I get into the Christmas spirit. I have a ritual where.
[00:40:35] Speaker B: When I'm wrapping presents, I put on like a Hallmark or Netflix Christmas movie.
[00:40:40] Speaker A: And that's what me and my sister do. We, we. Because we buy presents together for everyone. So we help each other know what to get or whatever and can like spend a bit more. But then we'll always have a film on in the background.
[00:40:54] Speaker B: Yes. It's so nice. When my sister, when my family came over a couple years for, oh, years ago, for Christmas. My sister and I did that as well. So it was so nice to. To do that together.
So, like, I do that with a drink because I'm usually doing at like 6 o' clock at night or whatever, have a glass of wine or eggnog or whatever. And that's my ritual.
Oh, you don't like anything good. Have you ever had eggnog?
[00:41:16] Speaker A: I don't know, actually. No, I think I have.
[00:41:19] Speaker B: You don't sell it here.
[00:41:21] Speaker A: Is there egg. Is there eggs in it? Is it that the point? Yeah, I'm just checking.
[00:41:28] Speaker B: I have to make. I have to make homemade eggnog here because it doesn't exist in this country. What's in it?
[00:41:34] Speaker A: I imagine egg and milk.
[00:41:38] Speaker B: I'm not gonna tell you because you might just puke.
[00:41:41] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah.
[00:41:42] Speaker B: It's delicious. You can only have like a tiny bit. When I do it. It's mostly spice rum. So in it. It's. It's.
[00:41:51] Speaker A: I drank too much spice rum in my university days and now I can't really drink it anymore.
[00:41:56] Speaker B: What university student does that with spiced rum like me? Tequila, Fine. Vodka nor ball, even like a cheap whiskey. Spiced rum.
[00:42:08] Speaker A: It was spiced rum. Yeah.
[00:42:10] Speaker B: That's so funny.
[00:42:11] Speaker A: Did it. I know.
[00:42:12] Speaker B: Oh, my God, that's amazing.
So.
[00:42:15] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:42:15] Speaker B: The Santa Claus is my favorite Christmas movie. Like the beginning of it with the, like the song at the beginning, and it just makes me feel Christmassy.
[00:42:24] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:42:25] Speaker B: So I watched that on it's hardcore. The Bells and. Yeah. Oh, my God, I love it. And so every Christmas Eve I watch that no matter what, and make like a nostalgic meal that I'm not going to tell you about because you're going to think that's weird too.
[00:42:41] Speaker A: What do you tell us?
[00:42:43] Speaker B: It's cream cheese on toast, which you're gonna.
[00:42:47] Speaker A: That's fine. No, I. I actually don't.
[00:42:49] Speaker B: And cream cheese and hot chocolate on.
[00:42:53] Speaker A: Not separately. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:42:55] Speaker B: They're not like the same thing. I mean, you can dip it. If you dip it. If you dip it, it's. It's delicious. And you can't knock it until you try it.
Jack thought it was weird and he loves it.
[00:43:06] Speaker A: I. I can see how that could work because cream cheese, cheesecake, chocolate cheesecake, cream cheese on toast, hot chocolate. I can see why it would be good as long as there's not salmon on the cream cheese. Oh.
[00:43:23] Speaker B: Why do people do that?
[00:43:24] Speaker A: I don't know. It's hard.
[00:43:26] Speaker B: I can't wrap my head around. No, no, no. Absolutely not if I see salmon on my cream cheese, I will throw it at you.
But you know what I just realized, which is really upsetting about the Santa Claus. And I realized it when I was just, like, doing some reflect. This is what happens to my nostalgia, is applying my new knowledge to my nostalgia and just thinking about how the Santa Claus is literally just a trope of that shitty ass dad who doesn't do anything and he does one good thing and he becomes like, the hero Santa Claus. It's the nagging mom who's divorced him and she sucks and married a psychologist. Married a psychologist who they just make of fun. Fun up the whole time, even though he's really woke and he's just trying to help this kid. But then everyone gaslights this poor kid and, like, what, to send him to, like, a mental institution? I'm like, what the.
[00:44:23] Speaker A: You're so right.
Yeah.
[00:44:25] Speaker B: But I'm just gonna. I'm gonna compartmentalize that.
Oh, Neil.
[00:44:32] Speaker A: And I really does. Yeah.
[00:44:35] Speaker B: I showed you my. For Molly's, so. For my sisters.
[00:44:37] Speaker A: You're Bernard.
[00:44:39] Speaker B: Yeah, I was Bernard.
It was a good one. And I felt very magical. I felt very magical.
[00:44:46] Speaker A: Yeah. Love it. Have you seen this TV series of the Santa Claus which came out, like, last year or the year before? No. It's actually a good watch.
[00:44:59] Speaker B: Yeah, maybe I'll give it a go.
[00:45:02] Speaker A: You don't look convinced. That's fine. Just stick with Santa Claus. What?
[00:45:07] Speaker B: Why do you love Santa Claus so much?
[00:45:10] Speaker A: Oh, I actually don't know.
I think it's just a film that, like, it came out. I think it came out in 1994, which is when I was born. So I think it's just a film we've always watched.
I think we had it. Oh, so we had it on.
You know, when you would record.
[00:45:29] Speaker A: You'D put in your.
[00:45:32] Speaker A: What do you even call it, VHS tape.
[00:45:36] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah.
[00:45:37] Speaker A: You put it into the telly and you'd, like, be able to record. So my dad had done that and recorded the Santa Claus. But I think. I think we usually miss, you know, like, the first couple of minutes.
So it's just normal for me to, like, miss the first minutes. Probably the bit where, like, your favorite song.
[00:45:55] Speaker B: That's the best bit.
[00:45:56] Speaker A: I know.
So, like, I remember when we would, like, then go on to watch it on, like, a streaming platform or whatever, it was like, oh, my God, there's, like, more to this film than what we've seen before because. Have you.
[00:46:06] Speaker B: Have you tried to spot all the elves in the beginning? Because you can see all.
[00:46:10] Speaker A: Oh, I know what you mean. Yes, yes. Yeah.
But I think it's just something we've always watched and I just. I don't know, it's just got such good vibes, such good songs.
[00:46:21] Speaker A: I love his dinosaur pillowcase. There's just so many things to love about it, and I do quite like the ones. The second one's pretty good as well.
[00:46:34] Speaker A: But anyway. But yeah, something we've always come back to.
[00:46:38] Speaker A: Another one I wanted to touch on briefly because I have a.
A more current point I wanted to make was the Grinch. Right.
So the Grinch with Taylor Momsen and Jim Carrey. And I wanted to bring this up because Taylor Momson just brought out a Christmas album. I don't know if you've seen or heard.
[00:46:58] Speaker B: I saw her singing at the Macy's Day Parade on Thanksgiving.
[00:47:01] Speaker A: Yeah, I love. I love Taylor Momson. She's awesome.
If you love the Grinch and you are after some nostalgic feelings, go listen to, like, the Pretty Recklesses new Christmas album. Because they. They like start. They'd sing the, you know, the Where Are you? Christmas? Song, but they. The first track, they start with kind of Cindy Lou who singing, you know, so when Taylor Momson was really young. And then they kind of merge it into Taylor Momson now, and then they do it the other way around in the last song. So they start with Taylor Momson now, and then they end with her when she's really young. And it just like gives you like a fuzzy feeling and it's like, oh, this is.
[00:47:44] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:47:45] Speaker A: Because. And obviously the line is like something like, did, did Christmas change? Or just me? And then it's her voice kind of changing. Oh, my God. It's great. It's fantastic. And she also has some pretty good other Christmas songs on there too. So that is my Christmas album recommendation. I might.
[00:48:02] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm gonna have to look into that. I didn't even know. I didn't know it was a whole album that they released. So that's awesome.
Awesome.
[00:48:09] Speaker A: There you go. Fun time. Some nostalgic feelings. You know what?
[00:48:13] Speaker B: I also, Jo, I never understood as a child why the Grinch. Like, I understood that he stole presence and that was the bad part. But, like, why was everyone so like. I just. I never thought that he was probably the bad guy. Everyone was just really mean to him and he just wanted to go live alone and people just because. Bothered him different.
[00:48:32] Speaker A: That was it. Just because he was different. He didn't really do anything wrong.
He just got made fun of. He was a sweet Grinch. He was trying to make a girl. He fancied a Christmas decoration. And then everybody made fun of him and shaved his head.
[00:48:48] Speaker A: I know, right? God. Yeah. We gonna get angry now.
[00:48:51] Speaker B: I know. To turn the tide, I might watch Elf this weekend. I love Elf.
[00:48:57] Speaker A: I love Elf as well.
[00:48:58] Speaker B: It's a fun one.
I know. Yeah, she's great. Do you ever watch New Girl? Did you ever watch New Girl?
[00:49:04] Speaker A: I have watched bits of it. I wouldn't say I've obsessed.
[00:49:08] Speaker B: Oh, my God, I love New Girl. It's one of those, like, repeats that we have. Like, if we just need something easy to watch, definitely watch it more.
[00:49:16] Speaker A: Okay, I will. I'll add it to my brain list.
[00:49:20] Speaker B: Brain list.
[00:49:21] Speaker A: So.
So where do we go now? So I guess we've spoken a bit. We've spoken a lot about nostalgia and I guess how media shapes it, how films shape it, how our rituals shape it.
And I guess I wanted to kind of briefly touch on before.
[00:49:39] Speaker A: Yeah, briefly kind of touch on the reality in a way. We're going to talk more about this next week. But often the reality of things, when we get to say Christmas Day might not match the memory. Sometimes it does, sometimes it does not. So the nostalgia kind of beforehand can feel really comforting, but it can also be painful, I guess, when we get into the moment or into the experience in the present, and it doesn't really match what we had in the past. So this idea of, like, a perfect holiday ideal kind of becomes something or like a standard that we're measuring ourselves or the holiday period against.
And if we don't meet this level that our nostalgia has been setting things up to be, setting our expectations up to be, then it can create quite a lot of, like, guilt and pressure and comparison against just our own.
Our own holiday experiences around this time of year, which can be stressful.
[00:50:43] Speaker B: You know what I think the most stressful part for me? Not most stressful, because I think that's also something I want to come back to. It's like creating that pressure on yourself, like, if you can't give yourself those same emotions that you perceived that you had when you were, like, 12. But what's also really upsetting is recognizing it's upsetting for ways that I'll get into, but, like, is realizing that the magic of Christmas was really just like, how committed you're, if you're lucky enough, your parents. But in most. In a lot of people's.
[00:51:16] Speaker B: Situations. Your mom. The magic of Christmas was your mom.
Because I've seen so and you still see it, right? Like, men forgetting to give their wives Christmas stockings or she has to do her own.
Like, just like. And a lot of it is just, like, realizing that it was actually just a lot of unpaid labor on the mom. Just, like, spending so much time doing all. And so that was kind of sad for me. But, like, also, like, I'm sure a lot of moms love doing all that. You know what I mean? But, like, there's always the dads. Like, that there's. It's like, that's, like so common that it's a trope that's supposedly funny is like, oh, I didn't even know we got you that. It's like the dad. Like, oh, surprised as you are.
But then also, I don't know if you want to touch on that at all, otherwise I can just move on.
[00:52:03] Speaker A: No, I. I think it's a really nice point. And.
[00:52:07] Speaker A: I'm wondering. I think that would be good to talk about in the next episode around, like, this, the stress that comes along with that with maintaining expectations.
It's almost like sometimes the. I guess the mum in the example you've given is. It's like that. The swan, you know, like, on the top, it's like everything is fine, but underneath, like, it's manic, like trying to get everything sorted, but on top, you're trying to keep everything magical and happy and so on.
[00:52:37] Speaker B: Can we.
[00:52:37] Speaker A: A lot.
[00:52:38] Speaker B: Can we add, like, a little section on. Sorry, I'm messing around with my little bulbasaur.
[00:52:45] Speaker B: Gendered expectations for next episode or the one after this? Because I think that would. Yeah, I've been thinking about that a lot lately. Surprise.
[00:52:55] Speaker B: It's your fault for mentioning reality.
[00:52:57] Speaker A: I'm so surprised. We shouldn't have come into reality.
Should have just stopped on Christmas film.
[00:53:05] Speaker B: But I. I totally agree that you can put pressure and this extends beyond Christmas and things, but it definitely comes up a lot for people, I think, at this time of year. Put pressure and guilt on yourself if you're not feeling exactly what you perceive that you felt 10, 20 years ago for Christmas. Because obviously you can't remember exactly. There's a lot that goes into memory and you feel bad if you can't recreate that feeling for yourself, you know, as an adult. Because you're like, this is supposed to be such a special time. Why? And it fluctuates. Some years Christmas is awesome, and some years Christmas is.
You know what I mean?
[00:53:42] Speaker A: Definitely. And I think as well, when you've just got, like, work and other commitments and Things all going on at the same time.
It can mean that, I guess that nostalgic feeling we almost like don't give it space sometimes to come up. I think that's how I was feeling like a couple of weeks ago ago. I was like, I just don't have space to feel like nostalgic for this time time of year right now because there's so much stuff I need to do.
[00:54:08] Speaker A: But thankfully I think I've kind of gotten over that.
[00:54:13] Speaker A: But yeah, but I wonder, I wonder how everyone else kind of feels around this like anticipation in a sense for the holidays. I think this, this sort of time can sometimes be quite, quite nice in a sense. And like we were saying before, like you almost. We're looking forward to like the middle of December when we have a bit of a break and like when we start like, I don't know, Christmas shopping or like putting up decorations. Like there's a nice kind of like warm feeling around things around that anticipation.
And I think what we want to kind of talk a bit about kind of next time is around how. Yeah, in reality it's messy. In reality it's very unpredictable and just stressful.
But I think sometimes we can get the sense. And I don't know if you get this, Kristen, but like, do you feel like the run up to the holidays? So I guess for in our case, like the run up to like Christmas Day, do you think that's more magical than like the actual day itself?
[00:55:13] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it can be because there's so much intention in it and I think a lot of the magic comes from intention. Like the fun of buying, it's also stressful but like the fun of buying gifts for people. Intentionally setting out your decorations, making plans with people. If you're hosting, like the intent behind like, oh, what, how am I going to set the table and how am I going to decorate? Xyz And I think a lot of magic comes when we bring intention into our lives, into our brains and to like how we're. It's like because we're more constructing the meaning and so. And then it's like everything, even like a wedding day, you know, all these big life events when the things happen, there's like an ev. An inevitable kind of like crash that happens. Now I kind of like how the UK approaches Christmas is basically unless you're in retail or like, like restaurants or something you like, not many people are working.
So it doesn't really crash for me after the holiday because I get to look forward to a week of not Speaking to anyone and just existing in my house and having a great time. So it doesn't crash for me specifically, but I can. I've definitely experienced in the past, especially when I worked in retail and restaurants. Like, the, the run up is so nice and exciting and you're all dressing up for Christmas and doing all the, all this stuff and then it's just over.
[00:56:39] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I remember once I had to work on, I think it was Christmas Eve and it was like, I was so upset because usually that's the day that like our family gets together and like preps the meal for the next day and stuff. And I was like, I couldn't do it. I have to go stand in work where it's so busy and so overwhelming.
Like in retail at that time of the year.
That's interesting as well, I guess. Yeah. Like, like certain people's contexts and work situations and so on around the time of year and how that can really shift, I suppose, the downtime and the recovery and things like. Like that.
[00:57:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:57:21] Speaker B: What do you think? Do you think the run up is more magical than the actual holiday?
[00:57:26] Speaker A: I think it can be.
I think that. I feel like.
[00:57:32] Speaker A: I think it is up until like, you've had Christmas dinner. And then I feel like from that point it feels a bit like, oh, it's done. Do you know what I mean? And then like after the dinner, so after, I don't know, 3, 4pm or something on Christmas Day, it's kind of like, oh, okay.
And then you've got to kind of do all of the.
[00:57:53] Speaker A: What's the word? I guess a lot of, like, social stuff. Then after that, I think that's what I found quite, quite difficult.
[00:58:01] Speaker A: But I do love Boxing Day. I love Boxing Day to do very little.
So.
[00:58:06] Speaker B: So for those US listeners, what is Boxing Day? Laura who?
[00:58:11] Speaker A: What is Boxing Day? It's the day after Christmas where we just don't do anything. I think it's technically meant to be the day that you, like, play with all of your toys and things. Do you box things up? What is the exact definition of boxing?
[00:58:24] Speaker B: I think it, I think it was. I think. Well, I think it was because we don't do it in America, but in the UK it's a national holiday.
I think it's the day that you like, are supposed to like, give, like it's gift. You give gifts to like the postal workers and like, people and people like that. That. Oh, I don't know. I think so.
[00:58:44] Speaker A: It's a traditional holiday in the Commonwealth countries, stemming from historical Practices of giving Christmas boxes with gifts, money or leftovers to the poor and servants as thanks for their service.
There you go.
[00:58:56] Speaker B: There we go.
[00:58:58] Speaker A: Now it's like today, it's big post Christmas Day sales and sporting events.
[00:59:03] Speaker B: Yep, exactly. Great.
[00:59:05] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:59:06] Speaker B: Time for a new couch.
[00:59:09] Speaker A: Yeah, I just can't wrap my head around that at all because I've gotten so much stuff on Christmas and then it's like, I'm gonna go do some more shopping. Yeah, maybe, maybe that's some people's traditions and nostalgia in doing stuff on Boxing Day, you know what I mean?
[00:59:24] Speaker B: Half of our traditions are due to capitalism, so. But we don't need to get into that. This is the fun episode.
[00:59:31] Speaker A: We'll get into capitalism.
[00:59:34] Speaker B: Maybe in distress next week or maybe just never. Maybe we could. Well, just, we could keep it out this holiday season. We'll withhold it from the season that is literally constructed around capitalism. Yeah, we won't talk about it.
[00:59:52] Speaker A: Should we go into clothes then? Shall we? Yeah, let's do it.
[00:59:55] Speaker B: We've actually managed to do a non hour and a half episode. It's amazing.
[00:59:59] Speaker A: Yay.
So, yeah, well, I guess kind of to close. I think it's.
I think sometimes we can think of like nostalgia as being quite childish in a way. But it's not childish. I think it's this idea of.
[01:00:15] Speaker A: Remembering the past, remembering our past selves.
[01:00:20] Speaker A: Sometimes, which I think is quite a nice idea, is maybe considering what we might need this time of year. So if we're thinking about our past selves, thinking about the joy and kind of what we enjoyed during the holiday season, it might kind of give us a bit of a hint towards what we need or needing kind of that downtime and so on. But it's bringing up a lot. So it's bringing up a lot in terms of identity.
[01:00:47] Speaker A: Kind of memories, hope maybe sometimes a form of almost like grief or loss for past selves or even like people in our past. So that can be really heavy.
[01:01:00] Speaker A: But all nostalgia, I guess is valid if you like. So even the ones that have those like rose tinted glasses.
So, yeah, hopefully it's been a nice time for you guys to reflect on your own nostalgia and perhaps sometimes the like bittersweetness of nostalgia that we have that comes up.
So next week. So for our second episode in this series, we're going to talk about what happens when the holiday or the anticipation for the holidays meets the. The real holiday.
So we're going to talk a bit. Oh, no, not the real holiday. We all just. Yeah, anyway, expectations versus reality kind of vibes. So we're going to talk a bit about the stress that surrounds the holidays and maybe a little bit around this. The stress, I guess, specifically as like neurodivergent people as well, and how that kind of plays out during the holidays. This will be my first Christmas where I've had my diagnosis, so I'm kind of interested to talk about that and see where we go.
[01:02:12] Speaker B: I'm excited to talk about that because it totally changed my perspective on holidays.
[01:02:17] Speaker A: Yeah, I cannot wait. So, yeah, we'll talk about that. Sensory stress, social stress.
But, you know, so yes, so we shall see you then next week as we hopefully start to ramp up our Christmas even more.
[01:02:33] Speaker B: Wait to see what my outfit is next week, guys. Hopefully it's a little bit more exciting. Maybe Laura will wear Christmas overalls slash dungarees.
[01:02:41] Speaker A: Ah, maybe I'll get a Christmas scarf. I don't know.
[01:02:49] Speaker B: I love how my dogs have more Christmas accessories than you do.
[01:02:53] Speaker A: Yep, they really do.
I'll try my best, guys. I'll see what I can. I'll see what I can do.
[01:03:02] Speaker B: Well, with that in mind.
[01:03:05] Speaker B: Thank you guys so much for listening. As always, we probably left you with more questions than answers, but that is the point of this podcast.
We did love digging into the messy undercurrents of holiday nostalgia. If you have any thoughts or questions, questions, we want to hear it. Please drop us a comment or give us a message or tag us. And if there's something you want us to dig into next, get in touch. We are looking for our New Year, our January topic. So please get in touch because we're up for a new rabbit hole to start off the year.
If you liked this episode, please don't forget to like rate, follow, Scream about it from the rooftops, whatever your platform allows, and tell your friends you can find all our links on the but why Instagram page. Please head into the bio for everything. And remember, the first step to understanding is asking but why.
