Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:16] Speaker B: Welcome to but why? Real talk on Messy Minds and Messier Systems, the podcast where two psychologists overanalyze everything so you don't have to. We're here to unpack the weird, the worrying and the wildly unjust with just enough existential dread to keep it interesting. And I'm Dr. Kristen.
[00:00:30] Speaker C: And I'm Dr. Laura. And let's dive into the mess.
So.
Well, before we intro our guest today, we just wanted to let you guys know that, well, because we found the the world is so messy, we've decided to pilot a three episode series. So each episode stands alone, but together they map a system. So the what, the why and the what now, so to speak. So, so today we are kicking this off with a series on the alt right pipeline for women or harmful pipelines more generally, showing how pleasant aesthetics become rules and then doctrine. We'll also leave you with five points to help you pick up on this content online.
And to help us do this today, we are really excited to have Jess Britvich with us. So hi Jess.
[00:01:20] Speaker B: Hi everyone.
[00:01:21] Speaker A: I'm so excited to be here.
[00:01:22] Speaker C: So Jess, just to give an intro to you, kind of for our audience.
So Jess is a former social worker turned content creator who explores the intersection of Internet culture trends and politics through a progressive feminist lens.
So Jess, I'm wondering if you want to start maybe by telling us a little bit about yourself and why you got into content creation.
[00:01:45] Speaker A: Absolutely.
So I mean, kind of a bit of a journey. But I started creating content on TikTok in 2021, I believe as an outlet from my role as a social worker, which, which I love. But as you know, sure, you can imagine quite emotionally taxing, draining, all that kind of stuff. And I just needed that kind of creative outlet. So I started creating content really in the beauty space. And it was fun and I had a little bit of traction here and there with some videos, but it really was just like a little creative outlet.
But as things started to continue through, you know, the 2000s and we started to approach the 2020, the oh my gosh, what 2024 election, like what year are we even in these days?
Just naturally I couldn't help but talk, start talking about what is going on in America and just the dangers of this rise in conservatism and beyond even conservatism, but just this trend towards fascism and alt right that was really starting to become mainstream.
At the same time, I also left my role in social work for a couple various reasons and ended up getting more of like a corporate type job. But that being said, all this energy that I was spent that I love and my passion that I was channeling into my work as a social work, I was like, well, where now do I put this?
Because it's not really. It's kind of frowned upon to be screaming to people in the office about this in a 9 to 5. Yet I do. I still do.
So just naturally during that kind of time. Also with just like the rampant consumerism and like, I'm not an esthetician, I'm not a makeup artist, I just felt I didn't really have anything to add to the beauty space anymore as much as I just enjoyed it as like, you know, a consumer. So naturally I just started talking about the things that I was really passionate about, which, as I mentioned, you know, is really these political topics, and started doing it as, you know, kind of this get ready with me content. And I was almost kind of this like, light bulb moment of like, why wasn't I doing this the whole time? Like, this is what I love. This is what I've always wanted to do.
Before I went back for my master's in social work, my undergrad was in journalism and political science. So, I mean, really just this overlap of really Internet culture, media and politics is something that I really love. And being able to talk about it and meet other people who are in this digital space with the same type of values and being able to just kind of bounce off each other and connect and have opportunities like this to kind of fight back in this global rise of. Of conservatism and fascism that we're seeing. It's been really great. So that's kind of, you know, the short of my journey here today.
[00:04:27] Speaker B: That's. That's awesome. And it sounds like you found such a cool intersection of your knowledge base, your passion, and like, finding that meaning because it's still, you know, just because that's a positive intersection doesn't mean it's not difficult because you're still addressing difficult topics. And I'm sure being a woman on the Internet, addressing things, that will make some not so nice people happy. The comments in the DMS are not always amazing. So thank you for doing all that content because I think it does reach a subset of people that aren't really reached by certain videos on the left because, you know, and I can be like this myself sometimes a little too hesitant to engage in.
I don't know how to even term it, but, like, what would be like, you know, aspirational stuff, to use an aspirational thing as education instead of just shoving education down people's throats.
[00:05:23] Speaker A: Right. And that's something that I think the left struggles with a little. We want to quote, we want to give resources, we want to say, look at this article, look at these statistics. Whereas at least online, the way that the right is indoctrinating and this is going to be a lot of what we talk about is through these trends that seem innocuous and don't even seem political on the surface yet are reflections of these larger societal shifts. And so the more that I think we could talk about these issues and raise awareness to these issues and advocate for marginalized groups and communities in content that isn't inherently political, but is, because I'm a huge believer of everything is political genuinely.
But, you know, for the type of people who aren't seeking out that content, to be able to reach them through these other means, I think is important.
[00:06:09] Speaker B: Absolutely. I think that's really something that some people have started to pick up on and we just have to adapt. You know what I mean? We can't be under this false assumption that if you present reality, people are going to like, accept it because a lot of times reality sucks. And our brains find it a lot easier to look at content that appeals to a little bit of an easier bit of life or something interesting than they do to wrap their heads around facts and figures or engage in stuff that challenges their existing beliefs. Because. Because that's hard work and we're not evolved to do hard work and we don't have to. So.
[00:06:46] Speaker A: And everybody's just working to survive right now. You know, I mean, cost of living is insane. Just. I mean, the climate is, is collapsing. Just natural disasters and, you know, just conflict within communities and all that kind of stuff.
People scroll to escape and yet they're being indoctrinated in the same way. So, so it's, you know, how do we fight back against that without sounding like lecturing or like, you know, presenting content that is not engaging and exhausting and not accessible for people.
So the more that I think, you know, we can talk about these things through content that isn't inherently so high brow, reach a lot more people.
[00:07:30] Speaker C: I think it's interesting hearing you guys, because obviously I do not create content.
I'm like on Instagram a bit, but that's kind of about it. But I think it's. As you guys were talking, I was thinking about how sometimes I don't see those, like you say, almost hidden political messages or undercurrents that is in content on the surface.
And I'm maybe lucky in a way that I follow a lot of people who do see those things. And I always think it's so interesting when something is pointed out. I think one I saw the other day was like around like the male loneliness epidemic and how actually that is putting a lot of pressure, you know, on, onto women. And initially I was like, okay, I was honestly I was like, I don't 100% understand the argument as to like why this is like why women hate this. Right. Or not hate it, but you know what I mean? Why? Yeah, there's, yeah, we're unhappy with it. And so I then went away and like dug into like the reasoning and I was like, oh my go, how did I not see this and understand it? But I think that's the thing. Some of us, and perhaps me included in that, need to spend a bit more time thinking about what is the messaging underneath it rather than, yeah, that surface level stuff. And I think you guys, some of the people who really help me personally and other people as well, to kind of think more deeply about these things.
[00:09:02] Speaker B: It's one of those things where once you see it, you can't unsee it. And then it just expands and expands and expands. And I think, you know, you take the extra step to go and do, do your research and like look into it and reflect on the situation. But like 98 of people aren't doing that. They're just internalizing stuff without recognizing it.
So why don't we dig into kind of what we're going to talk about today a little bit Because I think we could just probably go on like this for an hour easily and it could be equally as good. But I want to give some people some key definitions because as Laura is saying, not everyone knows what the alt right is. Not everyone knows, you know, what we're talking about, even like in terms of like content. So the alt right, all the definitions for. I should have sent them some like flashcards beforehand or something.
[00:09:59] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:10:00] Speaker B: So and just feel free to interrupt your ad whatever you want because we really want to make the most of your perspective.
So the alt right is a network, mostly online technically, but it's becoming more real life movement that promotes white identity politics, anti feminist and anti immigrant racist sentiment, authoritarian styles of living.
And it's spread a lot through memes and irony and dog whistles.
And it's. That does that a little bit as a self defense mechanism. So like, oh, it's not that deep, it's not that serious, that kind of thing and it does this in three ways. So firstly, it hijacks your brain. So social media is already hijacking our brains anyway. But it's like exploiting those cognitive levers of like certainty, but then also outrage and also these ideas around group belonging and even purity that kind of makes these claims that people are making feel true.
The overall Internet dynamics, so the algorithm essentially so you know, it's, you're incentivized to be outraged. The, the content is going to be engaged with if people have an emotional response to it. And then lastly it's being normalized politically and in real life. So we have figures like our lovely orange menace allied media. We have anti woke people, parent rights, common sense branding that allows the alt right to frame their ideas into kind of like everyday discourse. So it doesn't sound so crazy.
[00:11:40] Speaker A: I think you hit the nail on the head there. And I was taking notes over here of things to touch on because I think, well, a couple things, yes, this used to be the alt right really started as kind of like the corners of the Internet like on 4chan, very much part of the manosphere, which is kind of like this very patriarchal male centered Internet that spews just like this hateful rhetoric. And it really was kind of, it wasn't, it was mainstream because America speaking and most of the developed world is built on white supremacy and patriarchy. But it wasn't as overt, you know, and really these intense, just, just overt, you know, alt right conversations were really secluded to those kind of corners of the Internet on these forums and you know, all that. But slowly, I mean, over the past, I don't know, I'm, I'm estimating someone probably knows the better date, but I would say like 10 years or so it really started to evolve into being part of the mainstream. And now I will refer to things as alt right.
And I'll sometimes get pushback in my comments being like this is an alt right. But in my opinion Trumpism is alt right. We're seeing the descent into fascism. Like this is all, this is alt right.
Even I recently made a video about like Turning Point USA and you know, some of the comments are like this isn't. This is an alt right. And I just strongly disagree. Sure, maybe there's like a lot more hateful rhetoric out there, but this is definitely the tip of the iceberg of what alt rights kind of is, you know, and I think also Kristen, whenever you said, you know, a lot of people are able to say that it's not that deep that's something that I try to push back on so much. And I think that really is something that affected especially Gen Z.
I think they have this fear of being like the cringe millennial. And so they often will. Will be so, like, detached from things and be like, it's not that deep. It's. It's not that deep. But that makes so many people susceptible to propaganda.
It's not that deep mentality. Like I say, it's not that deep until. Until it is.
[00:13:50] Speaker B: So I always say, we're going to. You guys are going to. It's not that deep. Us into fascism.
[00:13:55] Speaker A: No, literally.
[00:13:57] Speaker B: Literally.
[00:13:57] Speaker C: That just. Is that just like people saying that. It's not like that serious. It's not an issue. Like, is that what they mean by, by that?
[00:14:05] Speaker A: Any type of.
For instance, the Sydney Sweeney campaign, You know, all the discourse around that Sydney Sweeney ad.
[00:14:13] Speaker C: Okay. Yes.
[00:14:14] Speaker A: Probably the number one thing in my comments was, it's not that deep. She's just a hot girl. It's not that deep. It's just. They're just trying to sell jeans. It's not that deep. It's a way to just shut down any type of discourse and just kind of, you know, wash your hands of the conversation and just say, oh, it's not that deep. It's just a conversation ender. And it really prevents people from critically engaging in things.
[00:14:36] Speaker C: Yes, just like, completely dismissive of it. And it almost then. Because I think, Kristen, we get this a little bit. And I know, Kristen, in particular, you love, like, language and making sure language is right. And I feel like some people can be like that in terms of our language use. Right. And almost be seen as, like, pedantic or, like, looking for a problem and things like that. And it's like, no, like, it's, it's, it's there.
[00:14:59] Speaker B: I, I see it as a reflection of, firstly, like, people haven't been taught to critically think on purpose, obviously, with neoliberalism and stuff like that. But also I think the, the other. What was the other thing? I had something else on my mind and it's just gone.
It's gone.
It's gone.
[00:15:16] Speaker A: Yeah. Anyways, there's such a lack of media literacy that we have, and gosh, the reason of why that is, I don't know. So a lot of. I've had discussions about this with people, like, just the divestment in arts and English and instead of, you know, shifting public education to be more STEM focused, which is great, but also being able to critically engage with media with language. It's so important. And it's a skill that is that a lot of people don't have, especially in this new media landscape. Whenever we're talking about AI and we're talking about Internet trends and misinformation, gosh, we're so behind whenever it comes to, oh my gosh, educating people, even understanding the impact of all this, educating people around the harms, around how to critically engage let alone adults, especially like children, you know, which is really what I talk a lot about is like this younger audience getting indoctrinated at such young ages, especially young males. And then also, obviously I talk about the flip side of that, which is young women getting indoctrinated through this type of content.
[00:16:23] Speaker B: Yeah, I think this is a whole other topic in the first place, but it, like, it benefits these corporations for people not to have media literacy. So that's one thing.
And, and number two, it's evolved so quickly that I think that the people that were, you know, hollering, probably like mostly millennials, like, we need to get on top of this. The people above us, we're not listening. They don't want to.
[00:16:48] Speaker C: We.
[00:16:48] Speaker B: And we know that's a reason why you have so many issues right now. And so it was never, ever, ever going to be incorporated into public school in America or anything like that. Even though other countries are doing that. Like, they've already been doing that for a decade. You know what I mean? And that just, it's so, so there's so many reasons for why this media literacy, it's, it's. Anything else in American culture is individual and individualized. So, like, it's your fault if you don't have media literacy, not like it's a, like, systemic issue. And so I think that's a big problem as well. And we can blame Ronald Reagan for that as well. Add it to the list.
[00:17:25] Speaker A: When in doubt, back to Reagan.
[00:17:27] Speaker B: Yeah, so let's take it, start digging in. So we're going to start talking about, like, that soft life and heavy quot content or stuff that's targeted more at women. And so we're not saying that all of this soft life content is bad or leads to fascism. That's definitely not it.
I think what you can spot is what we're going to call in this episode a pivot. So that moment of time where that kind of like, vibe or aesthetic starts to kind of turn into a rule or a moral obligation or like that piece of lifestyle content shifts from like an optional preference to like a moralized instruction. So, like, if you prefer to stay at home and have traditional gender roles, that's fine. But when it becomes like a moral failing if you're not doing it, that's when you start, that's that pivot. So you kind of start to hear that change to a lot of certainty. Promotion of like purity and duty, appeals to obedience and like authority, stuff like that. Depending on who targeted to this common sense anti expert talk that we were kind of, kind of briefly talk touched on and often an invitation to buy stuff or join a program or something like that. And so that's what we start to see a lot of.
[00:18:45] Speaker A: I think also to add to that a biological thing as well too. A lot of this is rooted also in this gender essentialism which is this disproven I, this disproven theory that men and women are biologically designed to have like these specific roles in society and, and that's the key to a functioning society and individual happiness also too. And it's, it's. And it's transphobic. And it's just, it's, it's everything bad.
[00:19:14] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And it's wrong. And it's wrong. Yeah.
Not only is it like morally wrong, but it's incorrect.
[00:19:20] Speaker A: It's just like disproven. Yeah.
[00:19:22] Speaker B: I thought facts don't care about feelings. I thought on the right.
[00:19:27] Speaker A: That's gone out the window. Yeah.
But I do think it's kind of that triangle between that moral. Whenever you were assigning moral value to these decisions, it also puts something, it always puts these decisions very squarely onto the individual and then also ties in that biological aspect too. And I feel like it's those kind of three things that can really make sense. Some of this, these things dangerous.
[00:19:53] Speaker B: It makes it make sense in heavy quotes. It's like you've got all those things that were socialized to value and twists it a little bit. And I think unless you wanted to tie something in. Laura, I want to briefly explain why this is happening.
[00:20:10] Speaker C: I have a thought, but I'm going to save it.
[00:20:13] Speaker B: Are you sure?
[00:20:15] Speaker C: I think it might make more sense once you continue.
[00:20:18] Speaker B: Okay. Don't forget it.
[00:20:20] Speaker C: Okay. I wrote it down.
[00:20:22] Speaker B: So as you guys know, we're all kind of socialized within these systems of power. So patriarchy, white supremacy, neoliberalism, etc. And we're socialized to read things as a control is care. Right. Purity is super safe because we're in a, in a patriarchy.
If somebody is really certain, that means they're wise. So like certainty and wisdom. That's why some of these people in that anti intellectual movement, us as academics or just like anyone, you know, when we change our minds based off of updated evidence and stuff like that, they're like, oh, well, see, you just don't know what you're talking about. And you're like, no, that's how learning works, but also.
[00:21:06] Speaker A: Working.
That's the anti vax. Yes, there's a ton of that in the anti vax space that they'll be like, well, look at this. They used to prescribe like cocaine or something. I forget what drug it was. They used to prescribe drugs to people for whatever. And now that changed. That's the scientific method working in action. Gain more information and those recommendations change. But also the science has evolved so much since then. Anyways, I'm going on tangent.
[00:21:29] Speaker B: Yeah. And you know what? I think we can touch into the like the anti Vax stuff and the kind of like second kind of like category of this that I want to touch on because it's just. But it's also related. It's like hard to almost like structure it in a way that.
Because. Because they're so, so all intertwined and.
[00:21:47] Speaker A: Just personally, that's how I struggle. And that's why I've really enjoyed creating the short form content because it gives me a space to be able to sit down and work through my thoughts. I actually struggle having these conversations with people whenever or like, you know, a debate style kind of conversation because there's so, so much of these things are interconnected and it's, it's systems, you know, it really is systems and it's so like, how do I explain, explain all of these things and all of these like years of history to someone in this moment at the water cooler, at my work or whatever.
[00:22:21] Speaker C: Oh my goodness.
I feel this so much and I do not have half of the knowledge you guys do in this, but I find that it's like when I try to talk about and talk about to Kristen about this a lot, but I think that I always get caught by almost like what you guys were saying here. Like around people have arguments back that make it make sense, like make their side of it make sense. And then I get stuck and I'm like, I don't know how I meant to really tactically like challenge your point.
[00:22:55] Speaker A: It's a lot of like logical fallacies and things like that that are talking points that are taught. Like they're set on Fox News, they're set in these alt right MAGA bro podcasts and they have them Ready to go. And I personally want to get better at understanding how to dismantle some of these logical fallacies in the moment.
[00:23:16] Speaker B: I think it's something that we're all trying to figure out how to do and, and everyone will have their own style of doing it, but. And I tend to be quite like blunt and straightforward with it, but that's not always going to work. So I. It's a really difficult one as well, especially like trying to figure out how far to push people and what context and things like that.
[00:23:37] Speaker A: And also understanding who's engaging in good faith and things like that as well too, where almost no one is right. Oh my God. What just went okay, so nuance and what's so why I think this content, this kind of alt, right content, part of the reason it does so well online is because it's usually very devoid of nuance.
And whenever we're talking about short form content or whenever we're talking about the algorithm, the algorithm loves things that are obviously short, emotion based, which is what a lot of these fallacies are. You know, they're just emotion based, they're shareable and it lacks nuance. The algorithm doesn't like nuance. And so obviously this content that's riddled with misinformation and logical fallacies is feed for the algorithm. And it's so much harder to create content that rebuttals this in a way that's engaging or a way that's going to get the play time because of that, that algorithmic, you know, desire to feed information that's so emotion based and so rage baity and, you know, all.
[00:24:40] Speaker B: That kind of stuff.
And Laura and I talk about this all the time. I think we did a podcast episode on something similar about like defensiveness because these, even if our kind of, our content gets onto the wrong side and heavy quotes of the Internet, it's because they're rage commenting and things like that. But your content's being sent out to people likely that are never going to engage because it's causing them so much cognitive dissonance and defensiveness that it's not going to be a space for learning. They're used to coming onto the Internet to see their ideas affirmed and to feel better about themselves. So when it's something that, you know, engages in that, that cognitive dissonance and that rage, it's just, it's not going to work. So it's like almost like our kind of content can only address people that, you know, have a bit more skill with reflexivity or are Maybe somewhere more in the middle because, like, how are we, who just us existing on the screen for some of these, you know, alt right people is already like a no woman speaking. No, that's absolutely not gonna be listening. And one of the things I wanted to pick up on before we kind of start digging into the two specific types of this content is you notice that these pivots are so like, the kind of changes come really differently for different genders, especially men and women, because we're socialized into different virtues and ways of living.
So in women targeted content, it's kind of harder to see because it's in heavy quotes, softer in nature. So it's about care and belonging, love, relief. It's. It's homemaking and it's. It's all stuff that technically is har. Harmless in the sense of like, yeah, wouldn't we all love to just grow our own vegetables and do all that kind of stuff? And so that's why it's so much easier for people to be like, it's not that deep. Because the stuff targeted at men is much more aimed at hijacking the brain's senses of status and fear and like not wanting to be the outcome. And it's much, yeah, dominance, it's much more obvious. And. And so I think it's a lot harder to call out. And that fits a lot in with benevolent sexism, which I will go into a little bit when we start talking about divine femininity.
[00:26:53] Speaker A: Yes, this content that's aimed at women, that really can be these entryways to the alt right, is framed a lot of times as self care.
But the thing is that it doesn't exist without that patriarchal other side of the coin, which is that dominant, that violence, that, that patriarchal alpha male content that's being fed to men and in order for that to be able to flourish, is women buying into this idea that they are biologically designed to be more submissive, to be in the home and it's allowing more easily for rights to be stripped away and to accept that that really dominant, that violent and that dangerous, you know, alpha male content.
[00:27:36] Speaker B: A hundred percent. I. That gender essentialism is something. I mean, I rant about it a lot on the podcast because I just hate binaries because we're not meant to be living in any binary as a human. Like they just should not with like, nuances. Part of our. Part of life or it should be. And I literally just wrote Rage wrote, I suppose an editorial because something that I read pissed me off so much and I talk a little bit about it and, like, how gender essentialism is in essence there to make us two contrasting kind of beings. So, like, one cannot be like the other. And once you step into that, it's a hostile environment. Just like, you know, ambivalent sexism theory says any binary. So this is a tip for you guys. Anyone who's saying that it's black and white or there's a binary or any kind of essentialism, that's a huge red flag because that just means there's no room for nuance.
And that means they're selling you something, whether that be for money or they're selling you a system to exist within. But the thing that you were saying made me think of is this reminds me a lot of the backlash that always happens to women when they progress. And that backlash usually comes in the form of putting back women back in the kitchen and heavy quotes. So, like, thinking like, Post World War II, you know, getting women back in the homes through ideals surrounding femininity and everything like that.
And often this encourages so much internalized misogyny and these. Like, the annoying thing is it used to be run by the admin and the like and men, basically, where now it's so fulfilled by women. Like, the patriarchy has hijacked women through this. Like these selective invocations of feminism and femininity that reinforce the patriarchal, patriarchal power. Like that romantic. I can't speak. I'm getting too ahead of myself. Like, romanticizing submission to men, which is, like you said, often repackaged as self care.
[00:29:40] Speaker A: And a lot of times too, you know, we can't talk about this, about, you know, patriarchy and. And women being aides to the patriarchy without, you know, specifying that this is white women.
A lot of the time. 50 some. I was thinking it was even closer to 60% of white women voted for Trump.
This idea, especially of white women trying to align themselves with power, which is white supremacy, and therefore. And will put themselves in a cage in order to support white supremacy, which is. It's disgusting, it's racist. And, you know, you can't talk about these things without the intersection of them all.
And it's just absolutely infuriating because it's white women pushing these. These things and always has been as well. Yes, yes. And it's like just this colonized. It's all colonization, too, reflected in all this content, too.
[00:30:38] Speaker B: Yeah, it really is. It's that colonized approach. And like. And I think it's something that we'll talk about more Specifically when we get into that divine femininity, because it's. It's really like racialized femininity. You know, it has to be in western perceived context of tidiness and like effortless beauty. And what does that, you know, look like? It looks like a Sydney Sweeney jeans ad.
[00:31:04] Speaker A: Right.
[00:31:07] Speaker B: So I want to talk about divine femininity and how that's a bit of a pipeline into kind of like tradwives.
And this is something that you've really talked about a lot. Laura, do you know what divine femininity is?
[00:31:22] Speaker C: Not really.
[00:31:25] Speaker B: So I think what I will do is, if I can figure out how to do it, is share this really like this video that it doesn't sound super. Super. Oh, it's playing again. Stop playing. God, I hate using TikTok on a desktop.
It doesn't sound. Sound crazy, it doesn't sound unhinged. She's doing a few things that are red flags that if you're not aware of them, you will struggle to pick up on. And I don't think I'll watch the whole thing because it's two minutes long and no one needs to see this for two minutes.
[00:32:00] Speaker D: If you are a woman who has been stuck in the masculine deep in your doing, going constant motion and struggling to connect to your feminine, this video is for you. Because I've recently learned to embody and understand one truth that has radically changed my relationship with my feminine energy. And once you learn to embody and understand this truth, you're going to see your entire reality transform. And these are universal principles, so I know they work. The truth that I'm sharing with you today is this.
Nothing, and I mean nothing that is meant for you can or will ever pass you by. Let me repeat myself. Nothing that is meant for you will pass you by. And truly reconnecting to your feminine energy means that you build unwavering trust with this truth and unwavering trust with the universe that you believe so fully and completely that not a single thing that is meant for you will ever miss you. And this means you stop chasing, you stop attaching, you stop setting expectations.
You stop getting so upset when things don't work out the way they were supposed to. Because being in the feminine is being in receivership. You are not chasing, you are not acting, you are not doing. You are being. And that's not to say you're going to sit around all day and wait for miracles to happen, because you do have to take aligned action. But for example, if you're chasing a guy who's not showing interest in you. You keep pushing, you keep making yourself present in his life, but he's not reciprocating it. What are you doing? You're in your masculine energy, being the one pursuing, being the one putting energy out where it's not being received. And you're actually likely blocking the right person from entering your life. Reconnecting to your feminine is looking at yourself in the mirror and saying, hey, nothing that's meant for me is going to pass me by.
[00:33:45] Speaker C: So basically you stop having any dreams and any goals and then you're not stressed anymore.
[00:33:50] Speaker B: Well, that seems to be what it's saying. Floating around, waiting to receive, apparently. Yeah, unless it's an aligned action. So what are we aligned with?
[00:33:58] Speaker A: It's like, and here's what's so annoying and like why this content resonates with so many people is because, yeah, people are exhausted. Like I, I get it in the beginning. You know, she's speaking fair. A lot of people are tired of juggling all these things, you know, just going to work, going home, trying to keep like all being a mother, like all these different things. Because that's how. But it's capitalism. It's not being, not being too much in your masculine. It's. These are all critiques of capitalism.
But they'll never say that you'll never critique the systems. It's about you being too much in your masculine, which goes back to that individualism and, and that moral thing of like, it's, you're unhappy because you're two and you're masculine. It's not, you're unhappy because we're in this capitalist health scape.
And the thing is we regardless are going to be in this capitalist hellscape unless the revolution comes, which isn't looking promising at this point. And so I'm getting annoyed.
And so in this capitalist society, and I hate it, but you need money and autonomy and resources in order to survive and have power. And all of these conversations are always pushing women out of the workforce, out of, out, out of autonomous being autonomous beings and so that they're dependent on other people and can get you stuck in some really, really dangerous situations.
[00:35:27] Speaker B: They're, they're pushing them out of the, out of the, out of the paid workforce because really what they want, capitalism, capitalism requires the unpaid labor of women and other people that are not in the kind of like top hierarchy. And what you see a lot in these videos to maintain this is benevolent sexism. So I don't know if you're aware of benevolent ambivalent sexism theory, which basically postulates that, like, the reason that women and men have been able to operate alongside each other, maintain relatively good gender relations despite women's oppression, is because there's two types of sexism that. Well, many reasons, but one of the things is you have something called hostile sexism, which is super obvious, super direct. It's, you know, yelling abuse, it's, you know, up leading to harassment, et cetera. But the more insidious type of sexism is the benevolent sexism. And that's very, like, paternalistic and control. That's sold as care. And it's like, oh, you're so good. Love at making, you know, this. This meal. Or like, you're so good with the kids. I could never do that. Or. And it's. It's like praise for existing within these roles. And there's so much literature out there that's saying, like, really benevolent sexism is what's holding up the whole thing because it's encouraging women to stay safe because then they will experience the hostile sexism by leaving that benevolent zone. They're the benevolent women so they can stay safe and feel valued for their divine feminine. For the divine feminine. And that used to be through a lot of, like, religious roles and stuff like that, but now it's just. Just tweaked the way they're doing it. And it's just. I'm about to get heated now, too. But, yes.
[00:37:21] Speaker A: You know, that's just yelling into the void.
[00:37:24] Speaker C: You know what, like, this whole thing, like, reminds me of is. Have you guys watched Black Mirror, the TV series?
[00:37:31] Speaker A: I haven't watched all of it, but I've seen.
[00:37:33] Speaker C: Seen some of them.
[00:37:34] Speaker A: And I look up the Wikipedia summaries for a lot of them also.
[00:37:38] Speaker C: Well, it's like the idea, like, I feel like everything we've been talking about here, from, like, the pivot to, like, say, like the ambivalent sexism theory, all feels like very black mirrory in that there's something that's, like, very, like, subtle like, that people are experiencing or that's like, on the surface. And people buy into it and they start.
They buy that product or they start living that way or they start watching that thing. And then there's like. Well, yeah, the pivot, the switch, like, the dark side of what's happened. And then when they're in it, they're so deep in it that they can't get out of it. And then all of the crazy stuff happens in the Black Mirror episodes, which are wild, but it feels like it's just a real life version of that.
[00:38:25] Speaker B: It does feel like we're living in a black mirror episode for sure.
[00:38:28] Speaker A: It really is. It's indoctrination truly because that's what it. I mean it's starts light but then as you continue to get deeper and deeper and deeper indoctrinated it really just warps your reality, you know. Truly. And even some of this language in here that in that video.
Universal principles, one truth.
[00:38:47] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:38:51] Speaker A: Yeah. Like which all of this stuff doesn't mean anything first of all and I think a lot of it is hijacked from other religions and spiritualities and things like that and is co opted for you know, this type of messaging. But it goes back to that like no new how do you debate one truth? It's like oh this is the one truth. This is the universal principle. It just like there's no nuance there.
[00:39:16] Speaker B: Based off of what.
[00:39:17] Speaker A: It just shuts it down.
[00:39:18] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:39:19] Speaker A: It's like this is the universal principle of what? Okay, all right.
[00:39:23] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:39:24] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:39:27] Speaker B: It's like and you can see it and it's like those like word. It's like you can have spiritual pages and talk about it and all that kind of stuff. It's just the red flags are the like good women don't chase like respect his leadership. It's like those are the pivots that we're talking about like natural order like you say like that there's like some one natural order that we're supposed to be aware of. Where do you think this like micro shift that happens? Because it's not, it's, it's quite subtle. It's not like people one day are like oh I'm into self help stuff and now I'm an obedient trad wife. It's not like it's like a super obvious thing. Where do you think that first initial like micro shifts from that like maybe self help or just like looking for some relief and comfort into like obedience and backtracking starts. What do you think that looks like?
[00:40:18] Speaker A: Well that's really why especially just talking about online.
I think that's, that's why I call it, you know the alt right pipeline is because it starts with by just searching for you know, clean beauty because you have sensitive skin and you want to you know, find something that's not going to break you out or dating tips because trying to find a partner and so because there's so much of this content, so much of it is funded by right leaning organizations and because it does so well in the algorithm. So it really encourages creators to continue to double down on this type of content because they're being rewarded for it through the attention economy.
You could start with something really benign but because of like, you know, what I talked about earlier is how the algorithm just favors all of, you know, a lack of nuance. It favors, I mean these algorithms are created by people who are in bed with Trump and other elected officials. So you know, it also is naturally going to favor more, more right leaning content.
And, and it's just like more it's whenever saying something like this is the one truth universal principles that automatically grabs people's attention. So that type of content is just going to do well the algorithm. So you're like scrolling through your for you page, you're looking up dating tips or whatever it might be and soon just by you know, a couple scrolls and soon you're going to be fed this type of content and it starts out like even that one video, like whatever it's, it's two minutes in someone's day. It's not going to completely change their ideology. But if you continue to engage with that type of content and we spend so much time on our phones and the algorithm keeps feeding you what it is you're spending the most time on, you're going to get fed more and more radical content and more and more misinformation and more and more of these ideas that are wrapped up in this, you know, pretty aesthetic package until soon you're so spouting these right wing talking points and, and are just, you know, so that's what it is like that you're indoctrinated.
It's similar to like the way a lot of people saw happen to their parents with Fox News just becoming total shelves of like shells of like the caring and empathetic people who raised them, who, who were just indoctrinated by you know, late night Fox News. And it's, it's the same for young people online. It's, it's very similar, you know, similar.
[00:42:43] Speaker B: Processes I think a hundred percent and it, it's like obviously our brains are designed so that the more it's for learning so that the more we hear something, of course the more and more it kind of like solid solidifies itself in your memory and you're like naturally primed to initially think that the more you hear it. And I think that is a, I really like your comparison to Fox News because I think, because it's almost like the Fox News thing, the Fox News. I mean Fox has Always been propaganda like most mainstream media is to a certain extent, but it's always been right leaning propaganda. But it's been ramped up so much in the last. I would say as a reflect, as a reaction to having a black president. This is, this is a reaction to that as well as women's progress. And it like we say it's all related, but since then it was like almost out of left field how bad it got so that. But it was happening slowly so that our parents generation couldn't see it. And I think that's what's happening with the algorithm as well on social media.
So Laura, do you have any thoughts about that?
Laura?
Laura. I know Laura lives.
[00:44:02] Speaker C: We.
[00:44:03] Speaker B: We don't have Fox News over here. We don't have Donald Trump. We currently have JD Vance in the Cotswolds and everyone's protesting his stuff. He got, they kicked him out of a pub they like the. Because the employees threatened to walk out if they hosted him. So they canceled his reservation and he's just getting all sorts of abuse. I know. I, I love the UK for that kind of stuff.
[00:44:27] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:44:29] Speaker B: So what I love this is a.
[00:44:32] Speaker A: Total offshoot and unrelated. But do you know who I got asked to be on their YouTube channel?
[00:44:39] Speaker B: I didn't tell Laura this.
[00:44:40] Speaker A: Pierce Morgan.
[00:44:41] Speaker B: That's crazy.
[00:44:42] Speaker C: Oh, really?
[00:44:43] Speaker A: Oh, isn't that insane? I knew enough. I said no thank you. Like, yeah, it was probably just gonna try to bait me into some like.
[00:44:52] Speaker B: Well, it would have been that. Like that's crazy. You know when they have like the panel of all those people and they're just yelling at each other and yelling logical fallacies. And they've got one progressive on there who just looks really exhausted. That would have been you. That would have been your life.
[00:45:06] Speaker A: They've emailed me four times to ask me to be on one of these culture. First it was like a one conversation. Now they keep trying to get me on this culture panel. I just am ignoring it now, responding.
[00:45:15] Speaker B: Like, do you not understand what no means? That is another thing that the right doesn't quite understand is the word no.
Um, so I'm gonna. It feels a little like a sharp left turn, but it's not because like we said, it's all so related. I want to talk about clean wellness and heavy quotes and how that kind of is a pipeline to institutional distrust and specifically how white women uphold this and make this so much worse. Almost no one, for example, has been as instrumental in the like fears surrounding the vaccine and stuff like that as white Moms. And I'm sure for there's two things. Well, there's a billion things going on, but the things that pop into my head are the gender roles. And where women get value a lot of the times is through motherhood. And so they want to do that protecting thing. And it just gets taken a little bit too, a little bit too far. In heavy quotes, it's just like, like you said, it's a pipeline. It goes from zero to a hundred really fast. And then it's again, the other stuff that's happening through neoliberalism. So like lack of community, lack of childcare, lack of everything alongside anti intellectualism. So we're talking about healthism. So this worth is tied to the purity. You know what I mean? So, and we're looking at the outcomes of this are so individual. There's no community involved.
So if something is individualized, then institutions kind of seem like suspects. Like everyone knows there's something to blame about something going on that's at a higher level than their individual life, but they're just blaming the wrong things. And a lot of this also is linked to anti intellectualism.
So like credential. The amount of the reason I'm not just Kristen is the reason I am Dr. Kristen online is to try and overcome some of this anti intellectualism that always. It's really hard to separate sometimes that with the misogyny because the amount of people I get, it's like, you're not a doctor. You can't be a doctor. You're too dumb to be a doctor. Like, oh, you call yourself a psychologist? I'm going to report you to whatever board. The amount of like threats like that. And so like the credential shaming and then people claiming that they've done their research.
And you're just, I'm just sitting here, I'm like, yeah, I'm like, I'm a researcher and I know what that looks like. And I don't think you did that.
[00:47:41] Speaker A: Going on to Facebook and clicking your aunt's Facebook status is like not research.
[00:47:46] Speaker B: It's. Yeah, just.
[00:47:48] Speaker A: I know.
[00:47:49] Speaker B: So.
[00:47:53] Speaker C: I love the video you did on this, Jess. I didn't. Was it like a week or so ago and you were, I think you were linking it to like, you know, therapists versus, like, you know, ADHD coaches and things like that, dietitians and so on. And I think that that's such an, it was such an interesting perspective because we as, as sports psychologists, we often have this challenge where we're not, not necessarily fighting against but we are, I guess, competing with like mental, mental, mental coaches and so called, like cowboys.
[00:48:29] Speaker A: This unregulated coaching space.
[00:48:31] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. And it's, and it's really hard. And, and I, and I think it's.
Sometimes it's like I just need to put that conversation down because it feels like we can never win against it. But then at the same time, it's like even if some of these people aren't out there to do harm, they have not been trained. They do not have the same ethical boundaries that we might be bound by with certain regulatory bodies that we have to like abide by. And it's, it's tough, I think it's, it's hard, I think, to sometimes articulate like that.
I don't know that that situation without sounding like we're just trying to put people down or put ourselves on a pedestrian.
[00:49:19] Speaker A: Yeah, you're elitist, you know, whatever. But yeah, credentials means something. And there's, there's a reason.
And yes, we can just critique the accessibility of, you know, the education system and all of that kind of stuff and licensing and all of that, which 100%.
But at the same time it's there for, for a reason. And yes, the system can be, you know, is worthy of critique, but it doesn't take away from the fact that these are complex subjects that require years and years of study to truly fully understand. And a lot of harm can be done by just willy nilly anybody trying to, you know, interact with these very serious diagnoses and, and things like that.
[00:50:07] Speaker B: A lot of harm. A lot of harm. And, and like you said, obviously things like academia are still ingrained in things like white supremacy, you know, coloniality allowed. I can never say that coloniality and patriarchy and all that kind of stuff, but like you said, they're still valid.
We're trying to make it a lot better than it has been. And so this, this like ingrained fear of like, it's like a weird, like they love authority, but that they do not like authority if it's coming from people with letters behind their names or from institutions and stuff like that. And it's so weird.
[00:50:48] Speaker A: Yeah, authority through force and physicality, but not, you know, mental and educational.
[00:50:56] Speaker B: No nuance. Just no nuance.
[00:50:59] Speaker A: Yeah, no nuance.
[00:51:00] Speaker B: Yeah. If they can stick it in an easy to fill hierarchy that aligns with their worldview, it makes a lot more sense.
And I just think, I don't know if you. I don't have a post to share, Laura, but there's a lot of Posts that are just like, swap this ingredient because it's toxic. So for example, my partner works in the chemical industry.
[00:51:21] Speaker C: They were talking about like almonds and stuff.
[00:51:24] Speaker B: Almonds. Like even parabens. Like even parabens. He goes crazy. Parabens are. Parabens are all right. They're actually keep stuff a lot safer.
[00:51:33] Speaker A: Like anything.
[00:51:33] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I know.
[00:51:39] Speaker A: A little, you know, experiment that you can. I encourage everybody to do is just go on Instagram, type into your Explore page, Clean eating or Clean Beauty and see how many posts it takes for you to click on to get led to some type of misinformation. It happens almost immediately. Immediately. It's rampant and it's. It takes. I did it once and I should make another video doing it again. I think it took me like three swipes to get to anti vax rhetoric. It's rampant.
[00:52:11] Speaker B: That's crazy.
It's almost like how the study saying like they had a couple chats AI things like programmed as teenage boys and it took less than half an hour to get to red pill content and like harming women. It's just so fast. And it's like we're saying that it is subtle. So it is subtle from a. How it works in your psychology and how it works in the social systems that have been built around you. So it's subtle from that perspective, but that doesn't mean it's not fast. That doesn't mean it's not efficient.
[00:52:41] Speaker A: I think it's subtle for women to an extent, but.
But I think it's a lot less subtle for men. I think it's pretty. Especially with the Andrew Tate and you know, whatever, like that type of alpha male rhetoric. It's pretty direct, which is scary.
[00:52:56] Speaker B: And so is the any backlash against me.
Sorry, Laura, go.
[00:53:01] Speaker C: Sorry.
I was saying what, what pisses me off, I think about a lot of this is that those like initial searches that people are making are almost like. Because they generally want to like be better people. Like, they want to be like eating healthy. They want to be like, yeah, maybe they want to be in a relationship or whatever it might be. And it just feels so unfair. But then they're. They're basically being manipulated. Yes.
[00:53:31] Speaker A: Especially the anti vax stuff that really. And you mentioned this, Kristen really attacks mothers who are in one of their most vulnerable states, you know, being postpartum or you know, being pregnant in very vulnerable states, wanting to do make the best and the healthiest decisions. I really do believe that obviously that the reason a lot of these people are making these decisions is for the. Because they want to be, you know, making decisions that are the best for their family. And that's what makes me so angry about all these grifters and this misinformation out there because it preys on people whenever they're in their most vulnerable state.
And there's so much anti vax misinformation out there that, that permeates the clean beauty space, the clean eating space, the health and wellness space. It's almost synonymous with it. It's almost synonymous with the wellness space. And it really blows my mind how wellness, like wellness influencers, someone something that's supposed to make you, well, you know, increase health outcomes.
The majority, literally the majority of the content is so dangerous and it's filled with misinformation, is filled with information that's going to make you more sick and it's just infuriating and it's unregulated. They're using terms that are unregulated. Even the clean beauty space, it's all marketing jargon. You know, things like clean, things like non toxic. These are all unregulated terms that people can slap on a package with absolutely. No, they mean something different to each company, but they're emotion based buzzwords. And so people especially, you know, for going with like the, the mother's example, of course you're going to want non toxic, you know, whatever. If somebody's getting online saying all of your household products are filled with chemicals that are linked to cancer and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, it seems, well, what's the harm to switching to, you know, a non toxic product?
[00:55:26] Speaker B: Well, it almost seems like a moral imperative at that point. You know what I mean?
[00:55:30] Speaker A: Yes, right, exactly.
[00:55:31] Speaker B: Exactly. Yeah.
[00:55:32] Speaker A: Which goes back to that, that moral and that individualism too, you know. Well, I need to make these choices. You're using, you got the job. You're using the products that are, you know, toxic or, or whatever. Instead of looking at the effects of like climate change and fracking in our communities and all that kind of stuff that actually is contributing to cancer. It's no, you have to buy this, this and this in order to. Which has no scientific backing by the way. This is not true. The majority of these things are not like toxic, but everything's toxic in doses. You know, it's just overall just huge misrepresentation of science and misinformation and, and it can lead to really, really dangerous thinking. So I know when we started, you know, talking about how can this lead to institutional distrust. Well, a very easy example, you start Looking for non toxic, non toxic face cream. So you start kind of, you know, looking towards all that kind of stuff.
Next thing you know, you get fed information that, that sunscreen causes cancer, which is just flat out misinformation. Sunscreen does. There is absolutely no scientific evidence that sunscreen causes cancer. It's the sun that causes cancer. But then you start, you know, going down that pipeline. Then you start seeing, okay, well what else in my household causes cancer and you know, start getting fed even more and more misinformation and all of that. Soon you're led to like these naturopaths or these like holistic, you know, coaches or whatever who have no credentials, who are spewing misinformation online about how the CDC is, is corrupt and Fauci is putting microchips in your blood or, you know, whatever it is. And it starts with something so simple.
[00:57:10] Speaker B: Like, oh, Laura, you look surprised about that. Have you not heard that that was a real thing?
[00:57:15] Speaker C: No.
[00:57:15] Speaker B: During the, for the COVID vaccine.
[00:57:17] Speaker A: Oh my goodness, yes. Yes.
[00:57:19] Speaker B: So I didn't want to, I didn't want to miss the moment of Laura noticing that that's a real thing.
[00:57:26] Speaker A: Real thing, yes. Yes. The, the, the vaccine is implanting microchips into you that gets activated whenever the cell 5G. This kid is activated.
[00:57:37] Speaker B: With like 5G.
[00:57:39] Speaker C: Watching way too many sci fi films, these people.
[00:57:43] Speaker A: And you think fringe and it's not fringe anymore. It's not fringe anymore. It's wild.
[00:57:50] Speaker B: Yeah, it's, it's like you used to hide these kind of beliefs because of how crazy they are, but the Overton window has moved so much for so many different things that now it's just normal and like this. It's so easy for that to, like you say, lead into. Well now, you know, we don't like the government's approach to health care, which has now led to like the CDC reporting the autism. Just because we're learning more about autism, the prevalence rates have gone up lows and people not understanding like we were talking about, that's how science works. And then now there is going to be a national registry of autistic people and neurodivergent people. But then like, for some reason people didn't trust the institution. But the reason we have these hacks in is because this movement on mostly online has led to so much institutional distrust that they think now it's good to put in people who have no credentials and just like wild approaches to science and heavy quotes. They have brain worms eating their brains. RFK Earlier, Laura Yeah. Literally. Our head of the health.
Our head of health is. Has a brain worm who was eating his brain for a little while.
Yeah. And he sounds like he's been chain smoking for 50 billion years.
[00:59:09] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:59:11] Speaker B: You're like, I don't even know what to say to that.
[00:59:14] Speaker A: I'm not even sure what this means.
[00:59:16] Speaker C: But good look with. Oh my goodness.
[00:59:19] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:59:20] Speaker A: And he just funded billions of dollars from vaccine research.
[00:59:24] Speaker C: It's just so sad. It's awful, isn't it?
[00:59:27] Speaker A: It's so sad. It's, it's.
[00:59:30] Speaker B: Everyone's like don't even get me started around the stigma around autistic people and like everyone just hating us and like just that stigma alone has caused that anti intellectualism. And the pipelines that have been happening for the last like ten odd years, probably a little bit more has now led to cancer vaccines being like completely defunded. And it's just the pipeline isn't just like that individual pipeline. It happens.
If it's happening to enough people on a huge scale because we operate in these capitalist, patriarchal, white supremacist, neoliberal hellholes. It scales to be, to be huge, huge impacts. And I think next episodes we'll go into more of like the more the mechanisms behind it. But the.
[01:00:26] Speaker A: This is great. I can go on. Yeah.
[01:00:29] Speaker B: It's so easy to just get like we could have probably rant about this for five hours. You know what I mean?
[01:00:34] Speaker A: No, truly, truly.
[01:00:36] Speaker B: So it's like not just your crazy uncle who is, you know, revolution re, like what is it on Facebook like sharing like weird, you know, false information is completely changed now. It's, it's generation. It's you know, exceeding generations.
It's adapting based off of the generation and it's really scary.
[01:00:58] Speaker A: And it's impacting policy which is.
[01:01:00] Speaker B: Yes.
[01:01:01] Speaker A: Which is really the huge thing. Whatever things you want to make individually, I mean I'm going to push back on that, you know, whatever. But at the end of the day it's, it's impacting policy at the policy level and that's when we're seeing huge just defects in public health. Like it's really, really scary how this has gone from those depths of the Internet or that once a year having a deal with my uncle Bill talking at Thanksgiving to now being, being in the White House and affecting policy. It's just a nightmare.
[01:01:34] Speaker C: And like what I, and I probably say this year all the time, Kristen, I just don't get why, why is. How is it benefiting them? Like is it literally like they're kind of defunding, you know, certain vaccines and so on. Is it a control thing or like, or do they, they generally think that this is like the right thing to do?
[01:01:54] Speaker B: It just seems like think about what neoliberalism. Why the function of neoliberalism, which is to maintain capitalism. It's all tied into that and maintain power. It's to maintain power structures.
You know, I think they're worried about birth rates. So a lot of what they're doing is to get women back in the homes. There's a lot of eugenic talks, you know, talk going around. So like there's not going to be funding for certain conditions. So. Because they don't want those people or hounds, you know what I mean? So it does serve this, this like broader like search or maintenance of the power structures. And there's probably way more to it. I mean a lot if you look beyond that to stuff like I think I've mentioned to you, Laura, like Palantir and the surveillance, it's all about power. And you're, you can easily link in the autism stuff to Palantir because that's who they want to track everyone. So like this misinformation is making us more trackable as well. Because the misinformation like these, these pipelines, if you look at it like 20 steps ahead, one time one mom's worried about her, you know, kid having like, you know, having a hard time with being autistic. And then now 25 steps later, we've got Palantir tracking its citizens health data. You know what I mean?
[01:03:21] Speaker A: No, I think you've said that so well. And it really is, it's about power and just the rise of fascism. It's consolidating power and it's, it's reading check checks and balances and it really is all about that authoritarianism of just consolidating power to just the few of the most wealthy.
And it ties to, you know, a lot with like techno fascism and things like that too that we're seeing. And especially whenever it comes to, you know, the tracking and all of that of, of all of our data and our digital footprint and then even making these registries and that kind of stuff. It's all about consolidating power and creating these racial and economic hierarchies for, for just greater control for the very few. And it's really scary.
[01:04:03] Speaker C: It is so scary because I think, I think for me again, like, I probably see like the surface say decision or like policies are changing and I think why are they doing that, it's so stupid. But then, yeah, those extra steps that like. Yeah, the power that they're then getting from doing that.
Yeah, that is scary.
[01:04:27] Speaker B: It is scary. And so I think what we want listeners to come away from this series is a little bit more informed about how smaller decisions can have bigger consequences than you realize. And a lot of people apply that understanding to their life, but they don't think about it when they're scrolling on social media.
So I think, like, if you.
What I'm gonna do is give you like, five markers for a video and you chime in as well, Jess, if you have anything else to add, because I'd be super. I feel like you're even more of an expert on this because you're so ingrained with it all the time.
[01:05:05] Speaker A: But there's like five things I'm just online too much.
[01:05:07] Speaker B: I know chronic being chronically online sucks, but.
[01:05:12] Speaker A: Right, right.
[01:05:13] Speaker B: But we have to do it. We're doing it.
So we do. We do. Because otherwise the right just occupies that space. You know what I mean? Something is going to fill that void if we're not there.
So we just have to, like, compromise our mental health a little bit, try and help out.
So, like, if you see the first thing, if the tone of the video is. Is super certain. So you're looking at phrases like it's obvious that. Or the truth is like, think anything from Jordan Peterson through to the video I shared, like, well, the truth is XYZ aligned xyz. So that's a huge thing, is the tone is like, this is. This is what it is. You know, it's essentialism. It's like, it's either this or it's not right. And then the second one, which we've touched on a lot in this because I think it's a huge one, is things are moralized. So morality becomes not as subjective. It becomes like purity and duty.
So, like, good moms always do this. Real men lead, good women don't chase men. Stuff like that. So, like moralizing things. And once you pick up on that, you see it everywhere.
And then there's the authority side of it.
Don't argue with what's naturally there. It's asking you to submit to what's natural. So don't argue with nature. Do you know what I mean? Just like it's natural for women to submit XYZ number four is knowledge becomes common sense in heavy quotes. So things like not trusting experts.
Do your own research.
They just don't want you to know this. You know, they're gatekeeping that information.
And lastly, from my perspective, the, the kind of five big things are like that sense of belonging they try to lure you into, through monetization and that becomes some kind of weird proof of righteousness and like you're in this community of serious people. So like join the community of the only women who get it, that kind of stuff.
So those are the five things. So like tone, morality, authority, anti intellectualism and the belonging and monetization.
So those are my five things to look out for.
[01:07:34] Speaker A: That, that was fantastic.
I think. And I think that hits, I think that really hits on a lot of, a lot of these things. Even in that one video that, that we showed about, you know, the stepping out of your masculine. I mean, all of those pretty much are, are hit there. You know, that those universal principles, principles, that one truth back to that biological idea that, that women are. The reason that you're so burnt out is because women are supposed to be, you know, like, like this. I think that it's funny. A good thought exercise would be to go through and see some of these and how many, how many points. Check that on that checklist. I think that was really well done, Kristen.
[01:08:13] Speaker B: When I, when I watched that found that video, it was after I already kind of developed that and I was like, oh my God, I should be like putting like an X. How many times I hear one of these like phrases that fit under with it. Like it was way too many for two minutes. But it didn't feel that in your face. Do you know what I mean? It's just crazy. Yeah, yeah, we need to make like.
[01:08:35] Speaker C: A bingo card for people.
[01:08:37] Speaker A: Yes, the monetization one too. We didn't touch on that too much, but there's a lot, a lot there.
And especially in the wellness space, there's so many people, grifters who are selling these alternatives to modern medicine. Even for things like cancer diagnosis diagnoses. There's this huge push online to sell like coffee enemas as an alternative to chemotherapy.
It's just absolutely absurd.
Anyone trying to.
And, and that's the whole other thing because a lot of this wellness content or like this criticism of, you know, big pharma is because, oh, well, big pharma is a billion dollar industry. Well, the wellness industry is a trillion dollar industry and it's unregulated.
And so there's so many grifters. So keep, keep an eye out for the grifters too.
[01:09:29] Speaker B: Totally.
[01:09:30] Speaker A: A lot of them in this space.
[01:09:31] Speaker B: Because all of this, like, it's making me think about Laura's point. Like, what is the point from, like, an insane institutional point of view. And a lot of the point is when we're consolidating this power, it doesn't seem super linear. But all these people are making money for these tech bros through spreading this information. So it's not just about the government. The government right there, right now is there to support these oligarchs, to support these tech bros. That's literally how they're changing. Our policy is for them, not us. And so that's another way it's serving Laura is. Is through, like, maintaining and growing the influence of the stuff online because it's just making it more and more and more money.
So I guess I could go on a huge rant about that.
[01:10:17] Speaker A: I feel like that's a great, you know, point to end on is those five things. Just, I think the more that we can be critical, we can critically engage with this type of content and push back when we see it and also talk to our families and friends about it to avoid them from getting further and further indoctrinated. I think that's a great start. Just to make us feel like we have a little more power.
[01:10:35] Speaker B: 100%.
[01:10:35] Speaker C: I'm really interested to see if I pick up on any of this stuff because I must say, I don't feel like I've seen any of this stuff online. But maybe it's just because I wasn't looking for it. So I'll have to report back. Yeah.
[01:10:49] Speaker A: What you see now that you're a little more. But you might just have curated your algorithm and in a very nice spot. Yeah.
[01:10:56] Speaker B: Some of the videos you sent me, I'm like, how did this pop up for you? I'm so jealous of your algorithm.
[01:11:02] Speaker C: Oh, it's just like loads of random, fun stuff.
[01:11:05] Speaker B: Yeah. And mine is like. Mine is just, like, dark. It's dark, but the occasional joke. Yeah. Let me send you some funny videos.
[01:11:14] Speaker C: Yeah. I was gonna say then to wrap up, like a mini assignment or fun task for you guys then is to keep these things in mind. Kind of look out for these pivot phrases this week.
And what we would really like you to do is to tell us in the comments if you spot any of them and feel free to send us the videos as well and we can play them on a future episode in the series.
I'll keep a lookout as well. We shall all keep a lookout and we'll see what we find for next time.
[01:11:49] Speaker B: So I think now is a good time to. To Close.
I just want to highlight your socials, Jess. So you've got your Instagram and your TikTok, which are both your name, so Jess Britch. But we will put that in the show notes as well so everyone can get to it. Thank you so much for coming on to talk to us. That was so fun. That was awesome. I feel like I learned a lot and also feel like my rage has been justified by you as well.
[01:12:18] Speaker A: Thank you, guys. This was wonderful. This was such a. A fulfilling conversation and so necessary. So thank you so much for having me. It means the world.
[01:12:26] Speaker B: Thank you so much. Thank you so much. So much fun. I mean, we will literally have you on anytime. When I was reading, I would love to.
[01:12:33] Speaker A: I'd love to come back.
[01:12:34] Speaker B: Oh, that would be so fun. Literally, when I was reading through your kind of like descriptor of, you know, you're exploring things through progressive feminist lens, I was like, that is. That sounds like my life. That's. I cannot wait to meet you in person or virtually. So it's amazing.
[01:12:50] Speaker C: It's like having two Christians.
[01:12:54] Speaker B: Great. That's dangerous. There's a lot of rage in a single Christian, so.
[01:12:59] Speaker A: I know.
[01:13:02] Speaker B: I guess that's what happens from being like a progressive woman in America right now is just enraged a lot of it. But anyway, yeah, that's a. That's a whole other can of worms. So before I go off on a tangent about my rage, I want to say thank you guys so much for listening. As always, we probably left you with more questions than answers. That's kind of the point. And hopefully we can answer some of them in our next episode. But we really love digging into the messy undercurrents of that alts right aesthetic pipeline with Jess. Do you guys have any thoughts, any questions, any rage that you have? We want to hear it. So drop a comment, message us, or shout into the void if you really need to. Get in touch if you'd like us to address any specific topic, because we're always up for a new rabbit hole. So if you liked the episode, don't forget to, like, rate, scream about it from the rooftop, whatever your platform allows, and tell your friends. And you can find all our links on our Instagram page. Heads the bio for everything.
And remember, the first step through understanding is asking, but why.
